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Post by meepo on Jun 3, 2005 9:53:01 GMT -5
I'm with you, YB. It is apprent to me that Hasbro does not care to support this game in any shape or form and just wants to sell, sell, sell. Why is it the only updates to the webpage have been fluff? Where is a tournament program and if one is in the works, why is there zero communications to us about it? This really is such a shame, because as far as collectable games go, this is perhaps the most fun AND the most balanced I've played to date. I've been soured on the collectable scene for some time as well and tend to mostly play Board Games and RPG's because of this. Attacktix, or rather Hasbro, has only reminded me why this is the case.
At least with other collectable games, a "broken" figure, card, etc. can still be used. But with Attacktix, kinetics are the heart of the game. A Wolverine missing an arm in Heroclix is still Wolverine, but a Mace Windu with a busted lightsaber arm is straight into the junk pile.
And I seriously doubt you are any rougher on your figures than any of the rest of us. These figures are supposed to be designed to beat each other with chunks of plastic. Unless you have replaced your missles with construction nails, your firing springs with those found in an automobile engine, or lightsabers with spiked metal, I can't see your methods of playing any different from mine.
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Lonestar
30 Point Warrior
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Posts: 666
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Post by Lonestar on Jun 3, 2005 10:55:20 GMT -5
I personally think that their current setup is the fairest way that they can and should handle the situation.
If it was a 1:1 trade, how do they know that it came DOA and that it was not misused. How many people would go around searching for broken Vader/Yoda's to exchange for a new one from Hasbro.
The bottom line is that Hasbro doesn't care or worry about the 'aftermarket' and what we consider equal value. To them a vader and an emporer are exactly the same value.
You have the choice of what else to put in the booster, so you don't have to send back two figures that you need. If you don't have ANY duplicates to send back, then I suggest buying another booster until you have duplicates that you can send back.
by getting the $3 coupon or exchanging an open booster for a new one, you are getting back EXACTLY what you paid for and the retail value.
If you get a broken figure then you need to decide if it is better for you to send it back or not, based on 'aftermarket'. That is YOUR choice. If you are unhappy with the quality and this policy, then it is YOUR choice not to buy the product.
Hasbro is being more than fair without opening themselves up to wide scale abuse. We all have seen the booster bandits and how widespread abuse could become if they are too liberal in their approach. I also beleive that this approach is in the best interest for our 'aftermarket' if they freely send or give out too many figures or trade 1:1 for broken Vaders, then the demand for and value of good pieces go down. Simple supply and demand.
Just my opinion. Now lets get back to the battle!
Hey we could start laying broken figures around the battle field as terrain.
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Post by jedix42 on Jun 3, 2005 11:46:07 GMT -5
my rant on this subject..... welp first off i dont think its hasbros fault in anyway.. if a hand full of toys break due to usage.... its a small # of the total made and prolly within their own QC limits. and i agree their replacement is par for the course and nothing more is needed.. hasbro is a LARGE company yes, but they do not have tym OR space to set aside a few attacktix dupes for those that break. atacktix is what 1/250th of their product lines?? and just one of MANY Star Wars items. they are also sold in a blind packaging.. like baseball cards.. if i open a pack of cards and got a ripped david wright rookie.. topps is not gonna replace just that card.. they will send me a new pack or a coupon for a new pack. they DONT CARE HOW RARE it is.. to them its just a product. even if you paid (too much) for a vader on eBay.. that doesnt make hasbro think its worth 10$.. it still is available thru them at around 3$ (the value of the replacement coupon) granted you cant buy it single but average price per booster is 7-9$ one third of that is 3$... thats the corp. logic. to have the warehaus sit an open up a slew of boosters to have some for replacements.. just wouldnt work.. ive managed some large warehauses in my tym. first problem.. they dont have tym for little single replacements. its money lost to them.. they run a bizness.. (dont complain about them making money, thats WHAT THEY DO!!!) then what do you do with all the COMMONS.. and the non vaders, yodas, etc...?? is someone gonna return a wookie scout if he's broke?? nobodys complaining that cloney #4 doesnt shoot.. there would be just too much loss in that tactic. plus hasbro doenst like to deal with consumers.. thats why you have to spend something like 5000$ a month to open an account with them.. it would just not be worth their while to have someone in charge of this. have you seen a hasbro warehaus?? its just not set up for this type of activity. which leads into... finally if you are stuck with a broken figure.. return it to the store you bought it at.. they will take it back with little or no problem. and as prog stated let them deal with hasbro.. its what they do.. (and its who hasbro will listen too) you may need to bring back the rest of what was in the pak.. but yeah just toss anyold figure inthere... its going to the returns bin and not back onthe shelf.. so no worries about another collector getting stuck with it.. and that gives you the satisfaction of a %^*& ewe to hasbro.. (maybe?? if they get back tons of clones?) or you could always trade the broken one to a customizer!! and then trade for a new vader/yoda dont blame hasbro cause you bent your wookiee and they wont give you a spanken new identical one.. its a TOY.. part of a game.. fix it with tape/glue and go on... if the fact that Hasbro wont replace a 3$ figure that happen to break (their fault or not) is going to cause you to not play a game as fun as attacktix is... man i worrie... you spend more on lunch i bet than an attacktix booster.. (at least around here NY-CT) starve for a dey and hope for yoda.. so sorry for the meandering rant... i dont mean any disrespect to anyone on the forum.. you all have made some valid points. it just seems sooo petty.. (and no not richard) its a freaken 3$ figure!!! but if you need a new vader... i got three... ill trade you all fair square for any of the missing chromes i need.. rare, common or super rare... just gotta get my real login fixd and ill have the new list up.. i am however disappointed intheir upkeep of the website.. to tell us in the package to go there for info.. then to not have it.. xspecialy now.. weaks after the moovy open!!! eerrgg.... headen up to the RI this weakend.. maybe ill complain in person!!!
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Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 3, 2005 11:59:44 GMT -5
I personally think that their current setup is the fairest way that they can and should handle the situation. Then I think you and I will have to disagree respectfully on what constitutes the "fairest way" in this circumstance. In fact, as I see it, the procedure that seems to be the most current one is essentially a "lose-lose" scenario, compared to the 1:1 swap. I'll resort to more precise philosophical arguments to show why I think that the current policy is not the most optimal. You'd have to define "misused" more precisely to make your first question answerable. If by "played with enough in the manner prescribed by Hasbro so that it broke," I'd say that the likelihood of that is higher than that the figure was DOA. However, if by "stomped on, eaten by pets, or some other non-playing breakage," then I'd say the likelihoods are approximately equal. In the first case, the onus is largely on Hasbro to replace the defective goods, as they made them so that they couldn't be played with in the manner they prescribed. This is how all three of my figures have been broken. In the second case, however, the onus is on the owner to replace them because they were used in a non-approved way. That's why I put them away every night, because my cats might otherwise chew on them. As for your second question, I'd say the likelihood of people doing the equivalent of "dumpster diving" to return broken super-rares is lower than that of figures being essentially DOA. Inasmuch as the economies of scale may dictate that the more frequently produced figures are a bit cheaper per figure, in the long run, all figures may not be identical. But you're right: within a given category (assuming that all figures within a given category are produced at exactly the same rate), there should be negligible differences between figures to Hasbro (again, with exceptions made for slight differences in the amount of material or paintsmanship needed to render a certain figure successfully). But to the consumer, the difference is vast. Namely, I now have three broken figures that I want replaced. If I receive anything besides those figures, the net utility of the replacements is less than that of the broken figure (which I might be able to adapt to playing with understanding opponents). Plus, my goodwill toward the company (and hence the likelihood of my buying anything from Hasbro again in the foreseeable future - I have no kids, and my wife prefers to read, so all toy purchases are for me alone) goes down. Thus, I feel unhappy about the game (a net loss for me) and they are far less likely to see my money again (a net loss for them). This is false, at least in my case and in the case of anyone who's paid for super-rare Attacktix singles (likely through eBay). I have spent the equivalent of the cost of a booster, and sometimes more, for the figures that I have that are broken. Hence, I am not getting back EXACTLY what I paid for. In fact, I'm getting back much less than what I paid for (a net loss for me). True, that, but my not buying the product is a net loss for them. If they had a 1:1 replacement policy, I would buy more from them. Because they do not, whatever Attacktix I buy to replace my busted figures that aren't replaced in the Booster packs will be my last. I was planning on investing a considerable amount of money in Series 2, but I will now put it toward something else (a minor net loss to me, as I enjoyed Attacktix). Hasbro will not see that money (a net loss to them). Let's do a simple cost-benefit analysis here. Assume that a single figure costs Hasbro $1.33 to replace (rounding up to 50% markup from 47% for ease of calculation, given a booster retail price of $7.99; reference). Hence, sending out a booster pack will cost them $3.00 + shipping costs to and from the consumer (let's call this $5.62, for Parcel Post; reference), for a total loss to them of $8.62. For them, the major loss is shipping, but they could still save $2.67 in figure costs if they sent me a 1:1 replacement figure (making their total to replace a figure $5.95). Because they will only replace one figure at a time, the total cost of me sending figures back to them for replacement is: $25.86 for three booster packs $17.85 for single figures Now, if they allowed me to send back all three of my figures back to them to get them replaced 1:1, it would only cost them $8.62! Hence, the 1:1 swap is least costly for Hasbro. And if Hasbro made me pay for shipping there, they'd only be out $5.81. And if I had to pay shipping both ways, they'd only be out $3.00. Now, for the consumer, the calculus is different. A single figure varies widely in its cost to replace. In my case, all of the figures that need replacing are $5.95 ( Ki-Adi-Mundi), $7.95 ( Mace Windu), and $9.95 ( Yoda) on the open market . Let's say that I get them all together to save on shipping ($2.95). I end up spending $26.80 on replacements. It's impossible to calculate their cost if I were to buy them directly from booster packs, as there are too many factors involved, but it would likely require at least $50 worth of boosters (as all of my needed figures are super-rares), half of which would have figures that have no real worth to me. Let's assume that 1 common, 1 rare, and 1 super-rare is in each booster, on average. As all of the figures I need are super-rares, I'd essentially need to get 15 boosters to have a good shot at what I want to get. However, let's say that I get lucky and only need to get 40% of that, or 6 boosters. With the retail price and tax, that comes to $51.06 where I live. Hence, I basically spend over $50 for replacements. Let's assume that I send all of them back to Hasbro, and in the booster packs, I magically get two of the three figures I want, leaving me to spend either money on booster packs (say over $16.67) or an open market figure ($10.90, on average). Now, if Hasbro does a 1:1 swap with me, I pay nothing at all! Even if I pay shipping on all three, I only pay $2.81 (for the ship to) or $5.62 (both shipping directions). Only if I have to pay shipping both ways for three figures separately ($16.86; $8.43 for one-way shipping) does it seem to be in any way a loss for me to ship things back. So to sum up, for both Hasbro and me, the lowest costs are involved if they let me do a 1:1 swap. I do not believe that a 1:1 swap policy would open them up to widespread abuse; quite the contrary, it's the least abusive policy possible of those that have been thrown out thus far. It's also the most economical solution for them in the long-term. I simply do not agree that if they trade 1:1 for broken Vaders or the like, the supply will increase appreciably enough to decrease demand (recall the no "dumpster-diving" assumption I made). We could, but that's awfully expensive terrain. And as I said before, it's not "just a $3 figure." At least, it's an $8.90 figure to me, out on the free market. ETA: OK, there are my numbers - in the hyperlinks. The eBay links may not be good after a month or so, though.
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Post by meepo on Jun 3, 2005 13:26:20 GMT -5
My last post on this subject:
I just wanted to point out that Wizkids, despite their products being blind-packed in booster box, DOES replace busted figures for you. You send back a Rookie Thug, you get a new Rookie Thug...you send back a Unique Silver Surfer, you get back a Unique Silver Surfer. They do this for ALL their lines too: Heroclix, Mage Knight, Mechwarrior, etc. They no longer replace "retired" or discontinued figures, but that still is a lot of overhead for them to be replacing them like that. And yes, they do occasionally thow in a couple of extra figures in there to keep your continued patronage and let you know we appreciate you. They've also done this for the past five years, when they were just a starter company with Mage Knight being a brand new game through the present, where they are a very profitable and large company in the gaming world. Kudos to them, Hasbro, you suck.
And if Hasbro does not care about aftermarket, why even have a rarity scheme at all? To sell more product, yes - but they KNOW that a Super Rare is not worth the same as a Battle Droid, otherwise they could just toss any three figures into a box and say GO.
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Post by jedix42 on Jun 3, 2005 13:43:03 GMT -5
where on dagabah did you get your numbers?? speculating hasbros costs per figure is ridculous.. (you also didnt include man power, storage of loose single attacktix in a HUGE warehaus of toys, boxes, shipping etc..) that fact that YOU paid over retail for them is all your choice. not hasbros. so you cant compare the eBay cost per figure with that of those at walmart. or what hasbro pays to get each made and out to you. i bought approx. 30 boosters to get a complete set, and i still never found a yoda or an agen (had to trade for those) but i did get 1/3 of the chrome set (many dupes too) in the process as well as plenty of troops and fodder for customs. (and NONE have broke) i also got 7 x#16 vaders.. so your right in saying the 'actual' price per figure is undeterminal.. to me vader #16 is worthless as i have too many, while others may need him.. agen is one i seek out, cause i only have one. (he's the only long hair inthe bunch!!! ) so i may rate him more rare than some one else.. but im using them to play a game.. (that bashes them against each other) i dont care how much they are 'worth' either way hasbro rates each at 3$ so thats their value. Until they are no longer available at retail, you cant consider 'aftermarket' prices if your just seeking individual figures for a collection i suggest trading for them B4 hitting the high prices on eBay. the people on this forum seem to be very willing to help out those in need. they helpd me! plus they wont break if you just display them. or why not tell the eBay seller that you got broken goods.. is it not their fault too?? maybe they are selling off factory seconds and that why they have so many singles to sell??? i dont know.. but the game is too d**n fun to be mired in this type of cuastic energy.
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Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 3, 2005 13:47:03 GMT -5
My last post on this subject: I should promise the same; alas, I've not got the same restraint as you. Bingo; precedent is the key for arguing this *can* be done but that Hasbro chooses otherwise. Bingo! Now, if only I had a prize for you, Meepo But I think it's obvious we're on the same wavelength and others think differently. I just hope my last post explicated my position in sufficient (if nauseating) detail.
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Lonestar
30 Point Warrior
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Post by Lonestar on Jun 3, 2005 15:06:49 GMT -5
Good points, but as far as precedance, there is also tons of precedance in blind baseball card, Pokemon, Yugioh, ect where you can't send back an off center obvious manufacture miscut error back and get a brand new super rare xyz card in gem mint centered perfect condition. Generally this adds to the collectability of the final product in the aftermarket.
Secondly there are basically 2 figures out of 30 in which you might 'lose' on the blind booster deal. The only people that will be 'losing' is if someone has a broken vader or yoda out of the box. Practiacally everyone else wins. If I get a broken vader or yoda, I would fix it the best I could and USE it in gameplay where it won't have much of an 'aftermarket' value anyway. That is where my first Vader and Yoda went. To my son to play, wear out, and break as he wishes.
Thirdly, it seems to me that this was intially desined to be a kids toy and to expose them to collectible strategic gaming.
Again, this is just my opinion, and I do certainly respect yours, and agree with some of the valid points you raised.
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Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 3, 2005 16:27:55 GMT -5
First, Lonestar's points... Indeed, but the precedents you cite are about collectible cards; Attacktix are collectible figures, which are a different market entirely. WizKids is the more comparable operation, in my estimation, as they run the same kind of business as what Hasbro does with Attacktix. Again, based on their market value, I'd disagree. I'd say that I lose on just about any booster that has any figure that isn't the super-rare I'm looking for. But if I were so motivated, I could theoretically turn around and sell any valuable figures I got in the booster swap. However, if they're really forcing people to send back three figures now, I'd say that the probability of losing out is much greater. Quite true; maybe I shouldn't have gotten as excited about this game as I have, being an adult and all. But I was having fun until I was confronted with the very real possibility that I wouldn't have that fun of a set left in a few months. Now, jedix42's... Sure I did; it's in the wholesale price cost, which is the price at which they factor in all of those costs and can still make a sale that's useful to them (note I don't say profitable, as that's not necessary, but I'd have to believe Hasbro is going with profit here, as this isn't a video game console we're talking about). But I thank you for asking me to cite my numbers; looks like I may have had a lower wholesale cost (though that may have been their actual cost to produce) than may be the case. Oh, and as for the warehouse costs, again, the economies of scale are actually working in Hasbro's favor for 1:1 swaps. Let's imagine they have three boxes of each figure: 1 box contains commons, 1 box contains rares, and 1 box contains super-rares. Within each box, they have a labeled baggie corresponding to each figure. Let's also imagine that they keep (say) 20 of each figure around for breakage replacements, as this is a new line of toys and their real-world quality is as yet unknown. So there will be a small box of commons, a medium box of rares, and a large box of super-rares. Let's also say that they stack these boxes so that the small and medium ones are both on top of the large one. Let's also say that they label the area above this box to designate it as "ATTACKTIX REPLACEMENTS." In a warehouse of the size that Hasbro operates, would not this relatively small investment in shelf space ($931 in wholesale cost, plus whatever opportunity cost the shelving entails) be worth their customers' good will? They'll already have lost a good $100 from me and my birthday-gift-buying friends and family; do you think there aren't 9 more people like me who they've chosen to sacrifice? Not from my understanding of "value." Hasbro is not the *sole* arbiter of value, as a figure's "value" is whatever price can be commanded on the market for it. And for the figures I need, the price is substantially higher than $3. I certainly can, when the only way to obtain singles otherwise is to buy them from non-Hasbro sources. And, as I think is evident from my vehemence on this subject, I do consider them This assumes that I have any figures I'm willing to trade, which is a false assumption, in my case. I've built my armies rather carefully, and I have no need for any more, but my game will also suffer if I have less. Not really; all the figures that have broken for me have done so after being removed from the plastic and played with. Besides, Hasbro seems to want to handle returns directly, so it's ultimately their problem. Nevertheless, this is a possibility.
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Post by jedix42 on Jun 6, 2005 14:36:26 GMT -5
ok heres MY last post.. only cause it takes sooooo long to compose these rebuttles im not sure i got the hang of the quote machine tho.. "WizKids is the more comparable operation, in my estimation, as they run the same kind of business as what Hasbro does with Attacktix." same kind of toy.. different amount of products (hasbro has gijoe, transformers etc.), volume, and revenue. but isnt mini games/heroclix/etc.. ALL that wizkids sells?? and i doubt they do the total year end that hasbro does. hasbro is a multi million dollar company.. where i would gander that wizkids made a million $$ in one years Profit at most. hasbro sells more than just attacktix. much more.... so its not really a comparison. thats like pairing a mom and pop pizza place to pizza hut... a better one as mentiond by the lonestar is the baseball cards and games.. topps, mattel, even sideshow toys would be a better xample to work with. Now, jedix42's.. (thats me!!!). "Sure I did; it's in the wholesale price cost, which is the price at which they factor in all of those costs and can still make a sale that's useful to them (note I don't say profitable, as that's not necessary, but I'd have to believe Hasbro is going with profit here, as this isn't a video game console we're talking about)." YB - the link ups definately helpd your price arguement. tho working in that manner hasbro would prolly use UPS for they would get a better rate or fedex which ever is their preferd carrier.. they will also get volume discounts and more than likely it would actualy cost them less to ship out. hasbro already profited when you bought the first booster. so no i dont believe they are trying to scam any more money out of the consumer via returns "Oh, and as for the warehouse costs, again, the economies of scale are actually working in Hasbro's favor for 1:1 swaps. Let's imagine they have three boxes of each figure: 1 box contains commons, 1 box contains rares, and 1 box contains super-rares. " theory and practise are two differnt things... this may work but they all come from china prepacked into the 3way booster. so they would still have to spend man power to open and shuck the boosters.. (i spent one weak opening CDs (10,000+) for BJs wholesalers so they could package them the way they wanted. i did nothing that weak xcept for that, along with 10 other people. at the rate we were paid it cost them close to 5-6000$) granted this was for a big customer and not a single consumer. but i just have a hard tym thinking hasbro would do that. all for one tiny line.. it would open up the floodgates for returns of the most miniscule product defects. "Within each box, they have a labeled baggie corresponding to each figure. Let's also imagine that they keep (say) 20 of each figure around for breakage replacements, as this is a new line of toys and their real-world quality is as yet unknown. So there will be a small box of commons, a medium box of rares, and a large box of super-rares. Let's also say that they stack these boxes so that the small and medium ones are both on top of the large one. Let's also say that they label the area above this box to designate it as "ATTACKTIX REPLACEMENTS." In a warehouse of the size that Hasbro operates, would not this relatively small investment in shelf space ($931 in wholesale cost, plus whatever opportunity cost the shelving entails) be worth their customers' good will? " 20 of each figure would not fly for a company as big as hasbro. (plus in all actuality they would most prolly get stolen if it were that small of an amount..) they sold hundreds of attacktix, and prolly made 20-50,000 in the first run?? it would be more prudent to figure in on the hundreds per rare, super rare, common box. say they have the men in china send solid boxes of each figure at 100 per. that would be 30 boxes of 100 figures each. 3000 figures, taking up much more valuable warehaus space. these items would prolly have to be barcoded for inventory purposes. it would be more than a simple send it an someone plucks the right one from a box. major distrubution warehauses dont work that way. plus thats what most of hasbros warehouses are: distribution centers. boxes come in one side.. and go out the other. most stores buy in boxlot (by the case) so hasbro would never even need to have any open product for anything there.. and this doesnt even address the 'chase' rare chromes. are they obligated to replace those too?? now if they sent those boxes to a central place where the customer service is.... then you have a whole differnt storie.. and i would have to agree that hasbro 'could' possiblee be a little more forgiving to us consumers. and impliment a 1:1 swap. " They'll already have lost a good $100 from me and my birthday-gift-buying friends and family; do you think there aren't 9 more people like me who they've chosen to sacrifice?" if your buying via eBay your not giving your $$ directly to hasbro anyways. your lost 100$ for them is nothing.. they make Millions profit each year ;( "Not from my understanding of "value." Hasbro is not the *sole* arbiter of value, as a figure's "value" is whatever price can be commanded on the market for it. And for the figures I need, the price is substantially higher than $3. ok i cant argue this point anymore since i found something to support your views on this.. toyota prius. list price 18-23, 000$. but i bet you pay 2-3000 over list for one... even the used ones are commanding higher prices than they were when NEW!!! while not really a collector item nor inthe same price range.. but its an aftermarket supply and demand price. showing that even if Y is available at X price.. you may need to pay more for it in order to get Y. so while I wouldnt pay more than 5$ or so for an attacktic, knowing i can get 3 figures for 7 bux at walmert (i want huge armies so xtras are no problem to me), some people would. and i respect their choice to do so. "This assumes that I have any figures I'm willing to trade, which is a false assumption, in my case. I've built my armies rather carefully, and I have no need for any more, but my game will also suffer if I have less." i would say this is the minority of the attacktix buyers. (poll??) most kids (the target market) and their parents ARE buying them at retail and not individualy so they have plenty xtras to rid them selves of and trade with. again this is your choice to make. dont change for me "Not really; all the figures that have broken for me have done so after being removed from the plastic and played with. Besides, Hasbro seems to want to handle returns directly, so it's ultimately their problem. Nevertheless, this is a possibility.[/quote] ok here you admit you break them.. so isnt it your fault??? in this litigious world nobody wants to take responibilty for they're own actions and its always someones elses fault AND they want some xtra over and above compensation. just my personal thoughts not a stab at you YB or meepo (had to make that clear) i really have enjoyd this conversation. polite and well thought out on everybodys part. rather than the fires i see on most boards. tho i feel neither will see the others side.. so that calls for a battle-off!!! ill fight my battle worn figures against yours!!! (is there a way to do this online like chess??) tho id have to break some first... welp id better get playing!! best of luck YB with your returns. i still will offer one of my vaders to replace a broken one you have. id do the same with a yoda but i have only one... send me the broken one (ill custom it) and ill post you a new in baggie vader #16... id say PM me.. but im still not up on the login yet... tilt the jedi X
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Lonestar
30 Point Warrior
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Post by Lonestar on Jun 6, 2005 15:33:55 GMT -5
As stated previously I do agree with most of JediX points and have to respectfully disagree with Meepo and Yoda breaker on this topic.
The whole aftermarket arguement means absolutely NOTHING to hasbro and this discusion. You buy boosters at retail from Hasbro, and they are replacing equal value of those boosters.
The 1:1 would result in everybody wanting fresh Vader/Yoda/Mace's and no one caring about the commons. So as Jedi X pointed out you would have warehouse space not being used cost effectively.
I like the Auto comparison by JediX, but my thoughts about it are a little different. Do you REALLY expect a car dealership to give you as much or more back for your car after you drive it off the lot and 'USE' it for a couple weeks/months. My son was lucky enough to get a Vader in his first booster. I know he was lucky. Anyway, we play the heck out of that character. He is in almost every game and his black is wearing off the sticker from finger twisting his base for strikes, and his sabre is warped back from so many uses. It has only been about 5 weeks. I guess I am do a brand new Vader from your logic. One that I can put away now and collect and someday get a whopping $20 for in an aftermarket after paying $6.99 for a booster and playing with it 'HARD' for 5 weeks.
I am not saying that you are playing rough, but you did get some use out of it.
I do beleive that what has happened here is that Hasbro did 'rush' this line a little to coinside with the movie release and that the product was not up to quality standards, and just a guess, but I don't beleive that they have all the rules and support figured out yet.
Several of us want to know what the chrome base means, what certain rule clarifications should be, and we are disappointed in the response, and I beleive that they just haven't figured it out themselves, because of the deadlines related to the movie.
That is my only 'complaint' if you really want to call it that, and the only place that I think Attacktix is lacking, but it is a kids toy, and yet in it's brillance has captured the attention of some serious strategy gamers.
I would hate to see people like Meepo or Yodabreaker lose interest or sour on the product because of the return policy. We would lose valuable and creative aspects of our little community, but I do think that you guys are really being hard on Hasbro, and have unrealistic or unusually high expectations for what should be done with toys that we are breaking however poor that initial quality has been.
Just my 3 cents. (went a bit over budget in responses).
We obviously just disagree about this particular issue and look at this situation from a completely different perspective and expectation from what we perceive is value being returned for our money.
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Post by ProgMatinee on Jun 6, 2005 16:04:04 GMT -5
From the Hasbro perspective, the product you paid $7 for was not 3 specific figures, rather a sealed booster. A sealed booster has the same value as another sealed booster. When you originally bought the sealed booster, your purchase was not contingent on getting Yoda or Vader, so when you receive a replacement it is not contingent on who is in it.
It does seem most of the complaints regarding figures breaking is in relation to the rarer ones...if Hasbro ended up replacing a large number of rare figures, then in reality those figures are no longer rare.
I think its up to people to decide whether they think Attacktix, based on the way they use them, are worth what their paying for them...without relying on Hasbro to replace worn down figures.
In an extreme example, Crayola doesn't replace worn down crayons, its commonly excepted that thats what happens to crayons after use.
So, do you accept that breakage is a common result of Attacktix usage that at some point is not covered by a warranty? And if so, do you continue to purchase the product with that knowledge?
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Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 7, 2005 13:26:14 GMT -5
Hopefully, this will be my last post on this subject, too, as I finally feel like I understand where the "other side," as it were, is coming from and where the bases of our strongly held (and probably unalterable) opinions lie. I think that overally, we've demonstrated that we can stick to basic rules of posting etiquette, even on a subject that gets us all emotionally worked up Nor do I; I was just quoting worst-case scenarios in terms of pricing for them. I was just trying to make the point that absent other information, the main reason replacing figures 1:1 would be expensive to them would entail the shipping costs, not necessarily the manufacturing/storage costs. I'd not thought about this from the perspective of Hasbro perhaps needing to do a rather substantial reorganization to permit 1:1 swaps. Good point! In this case, I can now see why Topps may be a more appropriate comparison company than WizKids, as WizKids was likely able to organize its customer support services around a more customer-friendly figure replacement model, whereas Hasbro already had decades of overhead and established methods to replace broken toys before getting started on Attacktix. Point taken With the relatively sparing use I give my figures, I'd say no, inasmuch as I play with them in the manner that Hasbro directs. However, I hadn't been thinking of Attacktix figures as consumables (like Crayons; I really hope they aren't thought of that way by Hasbro, either). If one thinks of them this way, though, I can see where it would be considered my fault that they broke - because I used them, period. Yep, and that's why their replacement policy makes sense for them, as a company. It's just that in doing only what's sort of good for them, they're missing out on the asymmetrical value of figures between manufacturer and consumer Interesting depreciation argument. I suppose the ultimate question is this: to what degree does Hasbro warrant its figures for any particular purpose? Their policy of replacing broken figures seemed to me to be an implicit warranty of their fitness for normal play, but that may have been an unwarranted assumption. I think the thing that really got my hackles up about this is their *change* in policy without warning or justification of it. Well said. What was frustrating me before is that I didn't understand the assumptions that were behind what you, jedix42, and ProgMatinee were saying. Now that I get our fundamental points of disagreement, I'm satisfied In particular, jedix42, I appreciate you taking the time to make your lengthy post. Now, apparently, I need to get myself a ton of Jedi strikers that I can use more as consumables, bringing out the big guns only when something absolutely, positively needs to be killed. Ah, Series 2...
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Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 13, 2005 15:08:35 GMT -5
OK, I just called Hasbro regarding the replacement of my broken Count Dooku. I spoke to a very pleasant woman named Veronica, who gave me the following information:
1) There was an official Hasbro e-mail that went out to customer service workers around June 1, 2005, describing the change in Attacktix return policy. A return of three figures would be required to allow for the sending of a replacement booster pack. 2) Veronica seemed to indicate that this was intended to be the policy all along, but that it was not communicated clearly, leading to them taking one figure and replacing it with three. 3) After consulting her supervisor, she informed me that the reason they must do this is because they consider a Booster Pack a "finished good;" hence, they cannot destroy a "finished good" unit to fish out individual figures. Thus, they need to exchange the equivalents of "finished goods" for it to be considered an even exchange on their end. They have also always considered the Booster Pack to be the "finished good" unit, which precludes their ability to do 1:1 swaps. This reasoning is precisely in line with what jedix42 described.
So, I'll send Dooku back along with two Wookiee Scouts that I got for a penny each. I think I wouldn't have had as much resistance to this change in policy if a) it would have been announced to the general public, b) if other collectible figure manufacturers (albeit ones with much more specialized businesses) didn't have 1:1 replacement policies for their figures, c) I didn't buy Attacktix from secondary resellers piece by piece, and d) I hadn't calibrated my armies so precisely.
Hence, I'd advise others who want to buy Attacktix singles to get "filler troops" if you ever want to return them to Hasbro (at most, they should be $0.99 each). And I might ask play_today!! about establishing some sort of return policy, as she seems to be in a better position to deal with Hasbro for those of us who buy singles.
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Post by Phoenix on Jun 13, 2005 15:33:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the clarification - Joe and I haven't had really any really bum figures (I guess we don't WHACK that hard w/our strikers) but I know others who really needed this info.
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