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Post by YodaBreaker on May 22, 2005 18:05:55 GMT -5
Y'know, I've been hearing people get upset about how the lack of attachment is preached as a Jedi virtue. However, this teaching is quite compatible with a Buddhist world view, in which attachments give rise to the cycle of life and death. Taking a Buddhist read of Jedi lore, only when one gives up attachments can one become one with the Force.
However, this isn't to say that you shouldn't have compassion for people, as compassion is a cardinal Buddhist virtue (which Episode II echoed). It simply means that one should not become so attached to any one person as to let him or her dominate your life. As we see in even the promos for Episode III, Anakin's jealous attachment to Padme creates many problems for him. But again, this is not to say that Anakin shouldn't have been at all attached to Padme, but rather that he should not have fought so hard against his visions and let the universe unfold as it should, if need be. I'm trying not to give too much away, so if this doesn't make sense, I can explain more in PMs:)
I guess what I'm hoping to stir up is a discussion regarding people's reaction to the "lack of attachment" tenet of the Jedi order, or these thoughts about the link between the Jedi and Buddhists:)
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Post by meepo on May 22, 2005 19:03:21 GMT -5
Absolutely! I've been a practicing Buddhist for about 4 years now and what you say about attachment and Anakin is completely accurate. His inability to open his eyes completely and accept the world as it is instead of how he thinks it should be, namely by defying the Jedi council and disagreeing with the methods Obi-Wan tries to use while teaching him, is classic attachment. I recognize several religons influence on the Jedi, but Buddhism is obviously a strong one.
Of course, IMHO, Obi-Wan has attachment issues of his own. I've yet to see Ep 3, but just knowing him through 1&2 and 4-6, I'd say his attachment to the idea he could be as good a teacher as Qui-Gon or Yoda is, instead of accepting his own ability to teach with his own methods, helps blind him from Anakins eventual deception. From what I've heard about Ep 3 so far, in my eye it seems that the entire saga isn't about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin/Vader but rather the failure of Obi-Wan and his sacrifice and redemption of helping Luke restore his father and returning peace to the galaxy.
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Post by YodaBreaker on May 22, 2005 19:08:58 GMT -5
I'll be interested to see what you think about Obi-Wan's attachments after you see Episode III (which really does kick serious arse). Ever since I saw Episode II, I thought that Obi-Wan's fundamental flaw would end up being a submission to fear at a critical moment with Anakin.
I've always thought that Yoda's "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering" from Episode I may have been a presentiment about the way in which Anakin would fall.
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RJK07
20 Point Trooper
GOTTA HAVE EM ALL...
Posts: 87
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Post by RJK07 on May 23, 2005 6:33:02 GMT -5
it does make sense i never thought about that...
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Post by Phoenix on May 23, 2005 15:47:55 GMT -5
I watched The Science of Star Wars on the Discovery Channel and one of the episodes touched on exactly what you guys are discussing - it's kind of a quick segment but it was pretty interesting to see the Buddist/the Force comparison.
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Post by YodaBreaker on May 23, 2005 15:58:24 GMT -5
Serves me right for not having cable...I'll likely not be able to see it.
And such random thoughts are a product of my religious studies major;)
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Post by Joe Manzo on May 23, 2005 17:34:43 GMT -5
Discovery (HD ) was awesome! It even showed little hover droids our government has! And beams of electric, like a stun gun, but more beamlike. Also, those flipping kids were insane!!
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Post by YodaBreaker on May 23, 2005 21:13:05 GMT -5
By hover droids, do you mean the Predators? I've always thought those things were quite nifty.
And flipping kids...you sure you weren't watching The Science of The Exorcist, Joe? ;D
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Link369
30 Point Warrior
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Post by Link369 on May 24, 2005 12:40:35 GMT -5
I have also heard about many other religions and their incfluences such as: Anakin seeling hi's sole to evil and the final battle in a hell like planet, got those from a t.v. guide. ;D
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Post by Spirit X on May 27, 2005 8:23:12 GMT -5
I find that the lack of attachment does tie the Jedi into a lot of traditional lore about warriors and peace makers such as samurai or buddhists. Also brings to mind things like the Book of Five Rings and The Art of War.
However, while this was the correct ideal to define the Jedi I think it gave Lucas a few problems because, if he had portrayed them accurately in this manner they would have become unsympathetic characters to the audience, a little cold perhaps. Anakin speaks of the difference between love and compassion which justifies the portrayal of the Jedi to a certain extent.
What really did surprise me though is in ROTS when Obi-Wan says to Anakin "I loved you", just after he's chopped him up. I thought that really this was a bit of a no-no for a Jedi to become too attached to his padawan. Interestingly this insinuates that, at least in part, Obi-Wan blaming himself for Anakin's fall is not entirely unfounded. The main plot-line states that Anakins' attachment to Padme causes trouble but the sub-plot indicates that Obi-Wan's attachment to Anakin is just as dangerous i.e Obi just gets too close to be objective about Anakin, and he doesn't really lead be example either.
Although, personally I don't think it's Obi-Wan's fault. If you consider that Anakin is actually the pawn being constatly manipulated and pulled around acording to Palpatine's plan you end up feeling quite sorry for the poor chap. Nobody could have prepared Anakin for the events he had to deal with.
Off topic, can someone help me out on how to use the apostrophe, I'm getting confused.
If I'm saying it's "Obi-Wan's fault" should it be:
Obi-Wan's fault? Obi-Wans' fault? Obi-Wans fault?
And whichever one is correct, when should I use the other? Cheers.
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Post by YodaBreaker on May 29, 2005 12:27:36 GMT -5
Since Obi-Wan is one person, the correct way is how you've got it: "Obi-Wan's." If Obi-Wan were a plural of things, like "Look at all those Obi-Wan over there!" the plural possessive would be "Obi-Wans'." However, if you want to make reference to a lot of Obi-Wan Attacktix figures (for instance), the plural of Obi-Wan would be "Obi-Wans." Does that make sense?
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Link369
30 Point Warrior
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Post by Link369 on May 29, 2005 19:17:33 GMT -5
Spirit X did you even pass grammer clase?
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Post by meepo on May 29, 2005 22:32:57 GMT -5
GRAMMAR, not grammer. Normally I wouldn't care, but since you brought it up...
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Post by YodaBreaker on May 29, 2005 22:37:51 GMT -5
Oh, and CLASS, rather than clase. Since you were getting persnickety and all Of course, perhaps if we were to give up our attachments to grammatical perfection on the boards, we all might enjoy a bit more harmony.
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Post by Spirit X on May 30, 2005 6:50:19 GMT -5
Believe it or not I have been a writer for years and it's quite common to see me whinging at some American on a forum about bad grammar/spelling but for some reason I just always get a little confused about the apostrophe. I was using it correctly anyway, I just wasn't entirely sure WHY it was the correct way.
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