Battle Ravange vs. the Jedi knights?

[haldu2]

So who would win, In a standerd battle.
5-Battle Ravange
or
10 Jedi Knights.
Both support eachother very well. If anyone has the means to try this please tell me how it works out.

[grizz]

haldu2 said:

So who would win, In a standerd battle.
5-Battle Ravange
or
10 Jedi Knights.
Both support eachother very well. If anyone has the means to try this please tell me how it works out.

I don't have the means to try it but I'm guessing the Jedi knights all the way.

[Radar]

Battle Ravage is 8/26, so he turns up white almost 1/3 of the time. So some really rough math would give us an estimated vision of how Battle Ravage might play out, 2 battle ravages would turn up black, the third would be white leaving us with 3, two more would go out black, the third white leaving us with one, it finally gets defeated and turns up black. So, it's be like having 7 Battle Ravages on your team (really rough math).

The Jedi knights 4/26 is almost 2/10. So during the game you will get 2 free move and attack with a Jedi Knight.

Both figures move 10, so it would seem like a close match, but the Jedi's should pull through due to their greater numbers. The mid size base wouldn't be too big a factor in an all striker game.

The part that overwhelmingly puts the Jedi out in front is their solid weapon. The Battle Ravage figure is not well equipped to knock more than one figure down at a dime, especially when the figures are not next to one another.

Jedi would win.

[xanatos]

Jedi, because, they can strike better, or is it just that I am not that good when it comes to attacking with my battle ravenge...

[Joe Manzo]

radar said:

Battle Ravage is 8/26, so he turns up white almost 1/3 of the time. So some really rough math would give us an estimated vision of how Battle Ravage might play out, 2 battle ravages would turn up black, the third would be white leaving us with 3, two more would go out black, the third white leaving us with one, it finally gets defeated and turns up black. So, it's be like having 7 Battle Ravages on your team (really rough math).

The Jedi knights 4/26 is almost 2/10. So during the game you will get 2 free move and attack with a Jedi Knight.

Both figures move 10, so it would seem like a close match, but the Jedi's should pull through due to their greater numbers. The mid size base wouldn't be too big a factor in an all striker game.

The part that overwhelmingly puts the Jedi out in front is their solid weapon. The Battle Ravage figure is not well equipped to knock more than one figure down at a dime, especially when the figures are not next to one another.

Jedi would win.

Since the Ravage player gets to determine his order in the case of multiple Ravages dying in one strike... I wonder if you can put a defeated Ravage into your DEFEATED area, and then have the second one pull him back out immediately.

I could see this happening in a Jedi Knight v Battle Ravage game, and I think it requires an answer from the top. I will start compiling a new list!

[Yaggleberry Finn]

admin said:

Since the Ravage player gets to determine his order in the case of multiple Ravages dying in one strike... I wonder if you can put a defeated Ravage into your DEFEATED area, and then have the second one pull him back out immediately.

I think you're absolutely correct Joe. Say I have a group of three Battle Ravages, and they all go down in one fell swoop from a Jedi Knight. One is black, two are white. Well, since I can determine their order, I simply put the black one in the defeated pile, and then return him with one of the white ones. That white one then goes to the defeated pile next, and is returned by the other white one, who then stays in the defeated pile.

[thecasualoblivion]

I don't think the Ravages stand much chance alone.

If I were to try something like this matchup, I'd go with:

4x Battle Ravage
2x Series IV starter Greedo

And I'd never move off the starting line, not until the Jedi were in range.

[Radar]

Joe, Yaggleberry, I agree. However, I would question one aspect of that reasoning. The defending player gets to choose the order of the special abilities, do they also get to choose the order of lack of special abilities? Or do the figures that turn up black instantly go to the defeated pile and ten you resolve the white ones? Or do the abilities take place before the figures reach the defeated pile? I don't know.

Also, something I've been thinking about recently. (I know the answer is "no", but it begs the question"why") If I only have 2 figures left (Grievous and his bodyguard) and they both get knocked over at once, should I not get to choose the order of the abilities? (No) Shouldn't one of them get a move and attack, if I choose the order they are defeated?

I know it's a goofy question, but having questions like this answered with the reasoning behind it should help resolve issues like the one you brought up.

At what point does a figure go to the defeated pile? Is there a difference of being defeated and being in the defeated pile? Does the special ability take place while the figure is in the defeated pile (maybe that's why so many figures say "...another defeated figure") or while it's still on the battle field?

I don't know, but I wonder.

[Yaggleberry Finn]

radar said:

At what point does a figure go to the defeated pile? Is there a difference of being defeated and being in the defeated pile? Does the special ability take place while the figure is in the defeated pile (maybe that's why so many figures say "...another defeated figure") or while it's still on the battle field?

I think there is a difference between being defeated and being in the defeated pile. All of my figures that have been defeated (those that have been knocked down) will be placed in the defeated pile (except for Rescue, Recover and Sacrifice figures if the conditions are right). However, I have the choice of what order I pick them up and put them in the defeated pile. I don't have to pick them all up at the same time and put them in at the same time, rather it is done one at a time, and that is where the order of the special powers comes into play.

[thecasualoblivion]

The rule specifically states:

When the special power activates, the figure goes to the defeated pile.


You have three dying Battle Ravages, one is black, two are white, this is what you do:

1. The one that is black goes first, nothing happens, and it goes to the dead pile
2. One of the white ones goes next, it brings the first one back into play and goes to the dead pile
3. The last one goes now, brings the second one back, and goes to the dead pile.

[Radar]

Ok, makes sense, but if you have a group of freshly defeated characters tat have not made it into the pile yet, can you choose to activate the ones that are white first, or do the figures that end up black go directly to the defeated pile? That may have an effect on future game play.

Also if two of your opponents figures fall at the same time, at what point do those abilities take place, at the defenders discretion? After the defending abilities take place? Take turns using abilities? Can the attacking player refuse to use the ability until the attacker is done (perhaps they have a Rescue ability and don't want to get shot off the end of the table)? As new lines of figures come out, these answers will effect game play.

[thecasualoblivion]

The defender chooses which order they activate in.

[YodaBreaker]

Err...well, in tournament rules, the attacker decides the order of special power activation, contrary to the answer that Hasbro itself gave in the FAQ. Because Hasbro itself published this "attacker decides" rule, that's what I like to go with, if I'm playing for more than just fun.

I also play that you'd be able to inspect each figure's special power window and determine which order you want them to enter the "defeated pile," largely because Hasbro's rules state that "the attacker chooses the order in which the special powers occur." Thus, in the case of two white and one black Battle Ravages, I'd force one of the whites to activate its special power (which would result in nothing happening), then put in the "defeated pile" first, followed by the second white Battle Ravage bringing back the first Battle Ravage, with the black Battle Ravage being plopped in the "defeated pile" last.

[Joe Manzo]

beevomit said:

Err...well, in tournament rules, the attacker decides the order of special power activation, contrary to the answer that Hasbro itself gave in the FAQ. Because Hasbro itself published this "attacker decides" rule, that's what I like to go with, if I'm playing for more than just fun.

I also play that you'd be able to inspect each figure's special power window and determine which order you want them to enter the "defeated pile," largely because Hasbro's rules state that "the attacker chooses the order in which the special powers occur." Thus, in the case of two white and one black Battle Ravages, I'd force one of the whites to activate its special power (which would result in nothing happening), then put in the "defeated pile" first, followed by the second white Battle Ravage bringing back the first Battle Ravage, with the black Battle Ravage being plopped in the "defeated pile" last.

But if a figure dies, he is defeated. So without a black window, he woudl go to the defeated pile even before the attacker can pick the order of Special.

I mean, no matter WHO picks, would you say that you can't determine the order of DEFEAT, only the order of Specials... which means Black goes into the bin.

[superflytnt]

I love these posts, where we get to discuss the finer points of the rules. Truly intreguing.

Now for my take:

a>The ATTACKER gets the call on whose white powers go first. We can agree that Hasbro has ruled this.

b>If 3 are killed in the same attack, the way I play (and think it should be played) is that if the Ravage who is killed FIRST is white, and the following are black, then the white power only applies to those killed before him, which would be no-one, so it would be nullified unless there was a previously killed Ravage. Now, if the first one killed is black, and it flies into another that is white, the first one that was killed can be called back into play as he died BEFORE the one who was white.

My reasoning is that if powers are insantaneous (as Hasbro seemingly tried to make them), then it would be unfair if I struck and killed a Gold Nute (who was white, who flew into and killed a Droideka and a Grievous) for me to be able to bring back in the Grievous and the Droideka as they were not dead when Nute was killed. It would be like a preemptive reincarnation.

Now if you couldn't discern who was killed first, then they should all be able to be called back into play, as it would be unfair to penalize the Nute team (in the previous scenario) for the players' lack of visual acuity.

As for the original question, YB proved to me that 10 Jedi knights would kill just about anything or anyone. Even if they NEVER got a white to come up, their advantage for killing "oh so many" per attack due to in-flight collisions on their opponents would lead me to believe that they would win every time, even with a skilled Ravager player and a mediocre Knighter.