First Turn Out-of-Bounds

[Lord Gravesmythe]

I've emailed Hasbro about this rules question.

In the suggested tournament setup, figures are placed 2 tix (approximately 2") from the edge of the battlefield.

On the first turn, a player with a launcher figure attacks and knocks an opposing figure (that has not had a chance to move) back to where part of the base touches or goes over the back out-of-bounds line. The figure does not fall over.

Is that figure considered defeated?

I'm just curious what the general take on this situation is before I receive the official feedback.

[MasterTiMothee]

I answered "yes" because, even though I don't think it's fair, that's what I understand the rules to say. This actually happened yesterday when we were playing.

I think it would be more equitable to allow each person a "move figures but make no attacks" turn before the normal "move figures and make two attacks" turn. That way, you could get your figures into formation before your opponent's first shot. In a 100-point game with 30 inches between the two teams, anything else gives the person with the first turn far too great of an advantage.

[Ben Kenobi]

there is an out of bounds line? wow i never knew dat...ive been playin wrong since i first bought my first booster pack lol im so embarrassed

[Lord Gravesmythe]

In the tournament rules, a playing area of 30" x 30" is "suggested." Also, reference is made to figures *knocked over* out of the playing area in the QSG and the fact that Force Push (the special power) does not allow you to move a figure out of bounds.

So, yes, there is an out of bounds line in standard play. In casual play, you can do whatever you like.

I think it would be more equitable to allow each person a "move figures but make no attacks" turn before the normal "move figures and make two attacks" turn.

My solution (well, one of them) is similar: The player going first may *either* move *or* attack on turn one, but not both. That way, if he chooses to attack when the opponent is (usually) most vulnerable, the opponent gets the same opportunity. Also, if the opponent is running an all-striker force, the guy with shooters can elect to attack, then move into formation on turn 2.

This keeps the early game advantage for shooters over strikers without making shooter v. shooter matches become "I go first. I knock out your main figure(s). I'll most likely win."

The ways I've thought about making this more fair are:

1) First player can move or attack, but not both on turn 1.
2) The base must be more than 50% out of bounds.
3) The base must be completely out of bounds.
4) A figure pushed out of bounds on turn 1 (but not knocked over) is not defeated unless it cannot get completely back in bounds with a normal move on its ensuing turn.
5) A figure pushed out of bounds on turn 1 is placed back at its start line at the beginning of its turn.

[stvatt]

I don't play with "out of bounds". That's for whimps! Real fanboys shoot figures completely off the table!

Seriosly, that would solve the issue. Start on a bigger surface, with 3 tix instead of 2 to even the field against the first attacker knocking everything off.

[Radar]

"no" What out of bounds line? Knock it over to kill I say. -Radar

[greyelephant]

I side with Radar on this one. I think it's only a kill if you either knock it over or if you knock it clean off of the table. Out of bounds has really never been played before in my house.

[grimlock]

I agree with Radar and greyelephant. "There ain't no out of bounds line and there never was."

[malform]

"out of bounds" would apply to people that either play on a large table surface, or on the floor. Both areas (especially on the floor) would require some kind of predefined playing area.

My daughters and I have been playing on the floor with the battle boards. So, if someones figure is knocked out of the defined playing area of the battle board than they are dead.

You could look at playing on a table top in the same light. If your figure is knocked off the table on to the floor then he is dead. In other words the edge of the table is the defined playing area. Its all in the arrangements of how you play and in combination of the house rules.

But anyway, I voted that if a figure is knocked out of bounds by the opposing side on the first move of the game then it would be dead. That’s the way we play it at home, and is the reason my daughters demand to always go first. But it seems from our game history that even if you loose 2 figures before you even move them, it does not predetermine the outcome of the game.

[greyelephant]

But it seems from our game history that even if you loose 2 figures before you even move them, it does not predetermine the outcome of the game.


I agree that alot of times when you lose a figure right out of the gate it does not always determine the outcome. However it is a bummer.

Hey, Malform how old is your daughter? Mine is 3 1/2, I can't wait until she is old enough to really understand the rules and can play fair with me. Right now she just shoots all she wants and moves her figures everywhere/anywhere. She also thinks its funny to occasionaly shoot me in the face.

[malform]

greyelephant said:

She also thinks its funny to occasionaly shoot me in the face.

lol

My daughters are 6 and 7. Much to my surprise they love to play attacktix. They get the rules and everything really well and we never seem to have any problems with proper game play. Team building is the only thing they seem to have a hard time catching on to. Making a team that has figures that complement each other.

[MasterTiMothee]

greyelephant said:

She also thinks its funny to occasionaly shoot me in the face.

Don't get your hopes up about this changing. I'm 32 and my daughter's nine---and we still think it's pretty funny to shoot each other in the head with our Attacktix blasters.

[Joe Manzo]

Whether or not you play by Attacktix rules is up to you, but Attacktix Tournament rules would say ANY kill counts. Just like the coin toss in O.T. you are at a disadvantage if you don't get the "ball" first.

Also, as far as the out of bounds, Hasbro already gave that answer, it's posted in the FAQ:


Q: If a figure is half on/half off the table, or the "out of bounds", is he dead?
A: Officially, If he can still roll a Tix he is alive. If any part of the base is lifted up or the wheel is hanging over the edge, he is defeated. Leaners are dead as they can not roll. But a good rule of thumb is that if his wheel is still fully functional he can still fight the good fight. [HASBRO]

[Lord Gravesmythe]

Q: If a figure is half on/half off the table, or the "out of bounds", is he dead?
A: Officially, If he can still roll a Tix he is alive. If any part of the base is lifted up or the wheel is hanging over the edge, he is defeated. Leaners are dead as they can not roll. But a good rule of thumb is that if his wheel is still fully functional he can still fight the good fight. [HASBRO]

Not trying to argue...just looking at this perspective. My son and I play on the floor on a tri-fold science fair board with the 30" x 30" field outlined on it. Since we're on the floor and the board is considerably larger than the playing area, a lot of figures knocked out of bounds will still be standing. This makes the out of bounds pretty much arbitrary when playing on the floor.

In tournament play (and that's what I'm looking at), this means it would be more advantageous to choose to play on the floor than on a table if you have a striker-based force or figures with wide bases. A shooter-based force will want to play on a table (and one as close to the size of the playing area, at that).

This also means that I can run my figures along the boundry and if they get pushed out of bounds, roll them right back into battle. Otherwise, the boundry is something that requires a bit of space so a hit figure doesn't go over the line.

Using your football analogy, this means that HASBRO views the boundry like the sideline during a kick. If you're a defender pushed out of bounds, you can still come back in and be part of the play (so long as you do it immediately and aren't the first to touch the ball). The other way to view the out of bounds is as the ball carrier being down if any part of his body touches the line.

I just didn't see the 1/2-on-1/2-off the table question as applying to games played on the floor. And the rolling tix seemed to be more of a litmus test for a table-edge figure than one on the floor.

I do hope HASBRO gives me the same answer, though, Joe! It will make my all-striker, "Episode VI: Return of the Jedi" force more powerful against shooter squads.

[Joe Manzo]

No problem, I think it needs clarification, too. My question was posed as if he is half HANGING off a table... so in that case it means if the wheel is still on the table, it is alive. If the wheel is OFF the table, but the weight of the figure keeps his standing he is dead.

So I would say IF you play on a floor, or an area that has extra space on all sides (like the Attacktix Mats people are making) then "I" would just say if 60% is off the mat/area it is out. 50% would be too close to call so, unless it's a cutthroat game, I would give it to the attacked player.

But the rule from Hasbro can be narrowed down to this: If the Tix Wheel is in play, the figure is in play.

In "Official" tournament play (which I have never played) they play inside a little box, with walls, so you can't go out of bounds.