jaws
30 Point Captain
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Post by jaws on Sept 7, 2007 20:33:07 GMT -5
Wow any one who was here at least two years ago remember that huge argument I had with some guy who I don't remember that lasted for like 10-20 pages or something that we had in one topic, but had to move to a new thread cuz it was too off topic. Good times.....
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majikmonkee
30 Point Warrior
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Post by majikmonkee on Sept 11, 2007 16:25:42 GMT -5
Well, we've had proof that the Emeperor doesn't know everything and can't forsee everything (otherwise, he'd never have died, and wouldn't have put Anakin in a position to be maimed by Ob-Wan). I think we have to give Palpatine credit for seizing the moments as they came along, not knowing for sure what would take place. I still think he fought with everything he had, though. If Palp had finished off Mace and the Jedi before Anakin ever saw him again, he'd have used the Jedi attempt on his life to sway Anakin one way or the other. THAT he knew for sure was coming, I think...
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Post by attacktixman on Sept 19, 2007 20:44:03 GMT -5
Majik Monkee, got it right in my opinion. Palatine wasn't feigning against Mace, but he did somehow have the ability to "see" or catch glimpses of moments of fate that could actually swing either way. Remember that Vader told Luke that the Emperor foresaw that he and Luke might overthrow him. The Emperor was so power hungry and insidious- which means secretly evil - (get it? Darth Sidious!) that he was willing to bet that these moments of fate would swing in his favor. When he saw that Luke wouldn't turn to the Dark Side, he set out to kill him with force lightning and while he was so focused on that, Vader listened to Luke's pleas and threw the Emperor into the chute.
Besides, no way was Palpatine able to easily kick Mace's butt. (I was always bothered by how easily he took out Agen Kolar, Kit Fisto & Saesee Tiin, I guess the surprise corkscrew attack explains that). Overall, he might have been more powerful, but not that much. He and Yoda basically fought to a stand still. And Yoda was not that much stronger than Mace.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2007 10:56:16 GMT -5
And Yoda was not that much stronger than Mace. I suppose that's why Yoda was the one that had his splattered remains decorating the streets of Coruscant, and Mace is the one who died of old age? ;D
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Post by attacktixman on Sept 21, 2007 12:43:09 GMT -5
Well, when Luke said Master Yoda you can't die -something like that- Yoda replied "strong I am in the Force but not that strong". He was soon after shown dematerializing into the force just like Obi Wan did when Vaders saber went through him.
Now, we're assuming that after Mace had his arm cut off by Annakin and was blown out the window by Palpatine's force lightning that he died and hit the ground and "splattered". I'd like to think that he slowed his descent with the Force or grabbed onto a ledge or speeder or something. (He did make that great jump when Jango tried to fry him). Maybe he was too injured to do much of anything after that and went into exile like Yoda did. Obviously, I'm a Mace fan. Just a bunch of conjecture on my part. Still, no way was Palpatine able to easily kick Mace's behind. I think they were quite evenly matched.
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Post by greyelephant on Sept 21, 2007 20:27:09 GMT -5
Lucas said flat out that Mace did die. By no means was he supposed to survive after getting his arm chopped off, electrocuted, and then flung 8,423 stories to the streets of Coursaunt.
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Post by attacktixman on Sept 21, 2007 21:25:11 GMT -5
Thank you, I abide by what George says Mace went splat! My humble opinion is that Mace was strong and skilled enough to give Palpatine the fight of his life. Since the balance of the Force was shifting to the Dark Side, Palpatine may have had the upper hand, but he didn't totally out class Windu.
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Post by willowstig on Sept 22, 2007 4:41:00 GMT -5
I think palpy's plan was to let mace win but when the fight actually started mace was more powerful than he expected and palpy was losing without trying to lose then he was lucky that anakin walked in! and yes i hope mace grbbed onto a ledge!
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Post by attacktixman on Sept 22, 2007 7:24:36 GMT -5
I agree, Willowstig and you said it so much easier and better than me! 'nuff said.
Now, let's start another one. Would Annakin have beat Obi Wan if Obi Wan didn't have the high ground?
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Post by greyelephant on Sept 22, 2007 11:38:02 GMT -5
Posted by attacktixman on Today at 8:24am I agree, Willowstig and you said it so much easier and better than me! 'nuff said.
Now, let's start another one. Would Annakin have beat Obi Wan if Obi Wan didn't have the high ground? |
Well, if you think about it Obi Wan worked his way toward the higher ground so in essence, yes, Obi Wan could win again. Now here's the deal. Obi Wan and Anakin were evenly matched when it came to their fight. Mainly this is due to Anakin being over confident. Now if they were to fight again and Anakin learned from his mistake, then I could see Anakin winning. Let's face it Anakin was potentially the most powerful force user at his time. He just became too brash and over confident with his abilities and that was ultimately his downfall.
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Post by ionicdesign on Sept 22, 2007 14:41:09 GMT -5
Would Annakin have beat Obi Wan if Obi Wan didn't have the high ground? Some good points by GE. Anakin was more powerful in the force. He also believed he had hurt Padme because of Obi's manipulations, and was using anger to draw his power. This being the case he lacked focus, and clear thinking and just went forward in rage. Obi by contrast was of a clearer head, and was intentionally putting himself in a position to have the upper hand (the high ground (which oddly enough I leaned over and pointed that out to my wife while watching it the first time, before he stated as much )). So all else being equal Anakin was more powerful, but Obi was close, had the clearer head, and was more thoughtful in his actions, and whether it was high ground or something else would have prevailed.
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Post by attacktixman on Sept 22, 2007 22:21:22 GMT -5
Yes, yes, you are both right! I wasn't quite thinking in those terms, but now that you mention it, Annakin's hatred & rage kept him from thinking and acting with a clear head leading to his defeat.
More I think about it, Obi Wan was always able to think and act calmly and quickly and turn what seemed to be defeat into victory. Such as when Maul was looming over him, the Acklay trying to impale him, etc. I guess that's one of the best traits of a great Jedi and I love it.
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Nick Vader
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Post by Nick Vader on Sept 27, 2007 8:38:20 GMT -5
Exactly! Anakin uses a very aggressive style and Obi uses a very defensive style. In a way, Obi was trying to tire out Anakin by using as little energy as possible to deflect Anakin's powerful blows. And as all of you have said, Anakin couldn't think straight because of his anger (Remember in the tunnel when he was swinging in big arcs and hitting the walls while obi was barely moving?) and he didn't think ahead. So, if Obi kept fighting defensively and if Anakin used anger and powerful blows then either Obi would tire him out and kill him or he would maneuver him (like with the high ground) in a disadvantageous position.
And like Attacktixman said, Obi always thought ahead and Anakin was always rash and reckless.
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Post by ionicdesign on Sept 27, 2007 8:46:01 GMT -5
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Traxx
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Post by Traxx on Nov 14, 2007 16:54:55 GMT -5
I think it's clear that darth sidious would have sereiously kicked maces butt. Heres proof. Mace couldn't sense that the force was too clouded to see anything everytime palpatine was around. I think that palpatine knew that Anakin was going to come ank he wanted to make the jedi look bad. Also it looked to me like mace was struggling an awful lot when palpatine used force lightning the second time. Palpattine would have killed him in like 10 seconds if he hadn't wanted to prove to Anakin that the jedi were evil.
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