Grinding 3 ticks instead of 2

[Cona Chris]

First off, I'm a total math geek and keep extensive statistics on the Attacktix battles that I have (if anyone has advice on how to post an Excel spreadsheet, let me know and I can share them!).

I was noticing that certain figures were getting their special power to hit way more often than they were supposed to (as compared to how many of the 26 spots on the wheel were white), and some much less. For example, one of my Grievous Bodyguards had gotten the special power about 80% of the time (over 30 or so games with him, so it's not a fluke), which is much more than the 38% chance it should have. My Yoda was under 50%, which is far below the expected 77%.

I then started thinking that since most of the time I move figures their full allotment of moves (and the max is always an even number) and since you grind figures two ticks, and since the special power wheel is 26 (another even number) that I may have always been on the "even" parts of the 26-wheel and never on the "odd" (hopefully this makes sense).

So if the white spots on the special power wheel aren't spaced out equally, then it would make sense that if you always moved an even number you may never hit the "odd" parts of the wheel.

Once I started grinding with 3 ticks, the Grievous Bodyguard starting coming back down to Earth, and Yoda got over 50% finally. I don't think it's a coincidence or the law of averages finally balancing out, so I've started grinding three tix from now on.

Didn't know if anyone else has noticed anything like this or not.

[sfx5000]

There is no set limit on grinding.

1. Are you talking about the 2 ticks you move to start the game? i.e. the starting line is 2 ticks from the edge of the playing area?

2. Or are you talking about the grinding you preform when a figure is returned to play (from Recover or Recruit powers) and/or the grinding you do when you do when a fresh figure is taken out of your storage when your team is selected.

If you are refering to #2, like I said, there is no set number of tix you must grind your figure. You can do it twice or fifty times.

[superflytnt]

I agree with the mathematical hypothesis. My friend Mark always grinds 3 tix and he never seems to hit the white spots; I grind pretty much as I see fit and I seem to get white spots more often than not, especially with S3 Skywalker (77% rating). My record is Skywalker getting up 13 times consecutively and infuriating my opponent.

[Draaka]

What I have noticed is that some charicters move more than others even if they go the same number of "tix"! Als o I noticed that if you move them slower they go futher!

[Joe Manzo]

draaka said:

What I have noticed is that some charicters move more than others even if they go the same number of "tix"! Als o I noticed that if you move them slower they go futher!

There are lots of tricks and cheats to use when moving a figure. If you look at the hands of a clock the THE head (furthest from the center) must travel further each second and the stub connected to the center travels much less... so if you are lifting your Attacktix off the ground a bit, using as MUCH of the surface of the wheel you will go further (probably what happens when you move it "slower")

If you press down VERY hard, you will be moving on a smaller wheel, so it will travel a smaller distance.

An easier way to think about it is with extremes! If you roll a Hoola-hoop ONE rotation, or a penny one rotation, which will go further?

Any math majors out there that can explain this better? I mean I have experimented with this... so I know you can go a little further with less pressure. Did I explain it right?

[malform]

I find it most interesting that you seem to get less than 50% with your yoda. In games I have played I have only seen him come up black twice. And I like to play 200 point games with 5 yodas on my team.

[Cona Chris]

sfx5000 said:

There is no set limit on grinding.

1. Are you talking about the 2 ticks you move to start the game? i.e. the starting line is 2 ticks from the edge of the playing area?

2. Or are you talking about the grinding you preform when a figure is returned to play (from Recover or Recruit powers) and/or the grinding you do when you do when a fresh figure is taken out of your storage when your team is selected.

If you are refering to #2, like I said, there is no set number of tix you must grind your figure. You can do it twice or fifty times.

I am referring to both (The starting guide lists 2 ticks for grinding the figures into play - both at the starting line and when recovering).

And Joe Manzo - I can't explain it any better, I think you are right with your explanation.

[YodaBreaker]

conachris said:

So if the white spots on the special power wheel aren't spaced out equally, then it would make sense that if you always moved an even number you may never hit the "odd" parts of the wheel.

That's exactly how the "white" parts of the wheel are distributed - non-equally around the diameter of the wheel, with a different pattern for each figure (possibly; I've not cracked open one of every figure in the game to find this out or played with Tixing each figure I have to discern the pattern). However, I believe that all copies of a given figure have exactly the same pattern of white-black alternations. It's been mentioned how this pattern could be used unethically in tournament situations (see the last post on the bottom of that page).

draaka said:

What I have noticed is that some charicters move more than others even if they go the same number of "tix"! Als o I noticed that if you move them slower they go futher!

Indeed, if one takes care to move slower, it's often possible to move a bit further. I believe that this is because you tend to put less friction on the wheel when you move more slowly and carefully than when you move more quickly and forcefully. See below for more explanation.

admin said:

There are lots of tricks and cheats to use when moving a figure. If you look at the hands of a clock the THE head (furthest from the center) must travel further each second and the stub connected to the center travels much less... so if you are lifting your Attacktix off the ground a bit, using as MUCH of the surface of the wheel you will go further (probably what happens when you move it "slower")

If you press down VERY hard, you will be moving on a smaller wheel, so it will travel a smaller distance.

An easier way to think about it is with extremes! If you roll a Hoola-hoop ONE rotation, or a penny one rotation, which will go further?

Any math majors out there that can explain this better? I mean I have experimented with this... so I know you can go a little further with less pressure. Did I explain it right?

My guess about this has less to do with wheel diameter and more to do with friction. I'm not sure that the Tix wheel is capable of physically deforming enough to generate the changes in Tixing I've seen (e.g., to make a figure yield 50% more Tix, its Tix wheel would have to shrink to 67% of its normal diameter). Nevertheless, I could hack apart one of my old broken figures and see if it's possible to do this - and then if it's possible to do this under normal game-playing circumstances (i.e., by putting pressure on the base, not by clamping the Tix wheel in a vise grip or pliers).

Because of the way the Tixer works, I believe that if you put less friction on the wheel, it will rotate less forcefully and thus require a larger distance to generate a Tix. Thus, if you simply lift the base of the figure off the table and scoot it along, it encounters practically no friction and hence would take an eternity before generating a Tix (in normal indoor circumstances when the air is not blowing fast enough to generate appreciable wind resistance). When you press down hard on the base, you generate more friction (in part due to some minor mechanical deformation of the Tix wheel, which makes it have a greater surface area on which friction can act) and hence generate Tix at a rapid rate.

This is also why you may get figures moving different distances using the same number of Tix on different surfaces. In my line of thinking, all other things being equal, surfaces that generate more friction (e.g., if you were to play on rough sandpaper) would allow you to move fewer Tix (and thus give the advantage to launcher-heavy teams) than surfaces that generate less friction (e.g., if you were to play on smooth sandpaper). I may have to dig up my old physics books and get some sandpaper (and some broken figure bases) to examine just how this would play out numerically.

And thus, I reveal the last of my secrets.

[redemptionrocks]

I have never and will never grind two movemens I ususaly either don't grind *me and my bro aren't super competitive we just enjoy playing* or grind something like 7 forward 2 back 3 forward. so I wouldnt know about them coming up because of a two/three grind.

[AWOL]

When I grind my figures to put them into play (before putting them 3 tix into the battlefield), I grind the crap out of them - forwards, backwards, up and down the table. Probably something like 30-40 tix. I try to get as much randomness out of the white and black. I like to think that when a figure is white, the Force is with that figure, and such things should defy calculation ("Use the Force, Luke..")

[Joe Manzo]

This article suggests that a deck of 52 cards must be shuffled 7 times to ensure randomness. Though I stopped following the math about 2 pages into it... I would surmise that a Tix wheel... with 26 spots (half that of a deck of cards - coincidence? I think NOT!) must be grinded (ground?) 3.5 times!

This of course has NO mathematical testing to back it up. But now you KNOW!

[Phoenix]

awol said:

When I grind my figures to put them into play (before putting them 3 tix into the battlefield), I grind the crap out of them - forwards, backwards, up and down the table. Probably something like 30-40 tix. I try to get as much randomness out of the white and black. I like to think that when a figure is white, the Force is with that figure, and such things should defy calculation ("Use the Force, Luke..")

I grind the crap out of my figures too before putting them into play. Although it's interesting to read the theories posted here....

[redemptionrocks]

and a deck shuffled exactly 13 times will have 2345678910jqka

[Draaka]

admin said:

draaka said:

What I have noticed is that some charicters move more than others even if they go the same number of "tix"! Als o I noticed that if you move them slower they go futher!

There are lots of tricks and cheats to use when moving a figure. If you look at the hands of a clock the THE head (furthest from the center) must travel further each second and the stub connected to the center travels much less... so if you are lifting your Attacktix off the ground a bit, using as MUCH of the surface of the wheel you will go further (probably what happens when you move it "slower")

If you press down VERY hard, you will be moving on a smaller wheel, so it will travel a smaller distance.

An easier way to think about it is with extremes! If you roll a Hoola-hoop ONE rotation, or a penny one rotation, which will go further?

Any math majors out there that can explain this better? I mean I have experimented with this... so I know you can go a little further with less pressure. Did I explain it right?

Yeah I understand that, ill have to tell my little brother to stop going 1/4 a center meter a hour.