|
Post by punisherad on Aug 27, 2005 20:42:43 GMT -5
There you go Joe ;D. I would say no. My girlfriend manages to knock him out pretty much every game. Although I do take down at least a couple of hers before he dies. So in my house he is not.
|
|
|
Post by YodaBreaker on Aug 27, 2005 20:49:45 GMT -5
There you go Joe ;D. I would say no. My girlfriend manages to knock him out pretty much every game. Although I do take down at least a couple of hers before he dies. So in my house he is not. I'd tend to agree. If you take out any supporting troopers of his, it doesn't matter how white his special power window is. Some of Armored Vader's (relative) debilities: 1) Special power doesn't come up as often as other figures (60% vs. 76% for Yoda/Starter strikers) 2) Special power requires other figures to be in play to become activated 3) Can only strike at close range to attack However, he definitely pushes the 40-point boundary. I think the extra-long lightsaber and extra 2 points of movement are what make him a 40-pointer. However, it seems that a 40-point striker is thus much more powerful than 40-point Force blasters (have we ever had an argument like this over Palpy, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Plo Koon, or Shaak Ti?). If more figures like Armored Vader permeate Attacktix, it may threaten to tip the balance of the game toward striker skills, rather than shooter skills. Not that I'd mind that, personally, but I'd prefer that my shooter team friends feel like they'd have an approximately equal chance with their favorite figures.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Manzo on Aug 27, 2005 21:00:55 GMT -5
Capture the Flag on a 4ft table. Playing WITH official rules, and only one team has a Vader. Vader can move to the center before any other player, even if it is by 2 tix.
He has proven difficult to be knocked over by shooters at a distance. And we have played games where if Vader get's to go first, the game is over in three turns.
So in our experience, he is too fast.
Also, he can be taken down with strikers and shooters... but you need to be very precise and (in my opinion) with practice.
So playing against someone new, Vader will prove much more powerful than any other 40 point player.
So my vote is "yes".
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on Aug 27, 2005 21:26:01 GMT -5
I say 'yes' too - he is freakin' difficult to kill! Force blasters can't take him down, shooters can't take him down & a strike has to be SUPER powerful to take him down. AND if you take him down he may just stand back up anyway! GRRRRR.
His movement is so high that unless you (the opposing team) is in a super-duper defensive formation he will reach your figs and smack them down in no time. I hate Vader!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by punisherad on Aug 27, 2005 21:27:02 GMT -5
I was also thinking. They did make vader realistic in a way. I mean he is VADER. The guy is supposed to be stronger than yoda. I think they should of made obi-wan and yoda striker alittle better. And when they make Jedi Master luke, he should be equal to Vader. So in a realistic aspect Vader is where he should be at in the game, I think.
|
|
|
Post by Phoenix on Aug 27, 2005 21:57:07 GMT -5
I agree w/ya Punisher - it is very realistic he is so powerful.
But I still hate 'em. d**n dark side!
|
|
|
Post by punisherad on Aug 27, 2005 22:06:07 GMT -5
I agree w/ya Punisher - it is very realistic he is so powerful. But I still hate 'em. d**n dark side! lol, I have a feeling Joe has made you mad a few times with him??
|
|
|
Post by Yaggleberry Finn on Aug 27, 2005 22:40:43 GMT -5
Man, I can't decide which side of this argument I fall on!! When I write how he's not too powerful, my argument sounds like he really is!
The 14 speed really does set him apart from everyone else. I love that I can sit just outside of any other striker's range with him, knowing they can't get me on their next turn, but I can still get them. And that's also why I don't like him! (Well, only when I play against him that is)
He certainly couldn't be a 50 point figure. And his defensive capabilities are right for a 40 pointer. I don't think his striking power is drastically better than anyone else. It's those two extra tix that set him apart. That and the really cool armor!!!
So in the end, I say he's just right. He needs something to set him apart, and I think it would be great if Jedi Master Luke also had the 14 speed. Good point, punisherad.
|
|
|
Post by Joe Manzo on Aug 28, 2005 0:16:56 GMT -5
I will work with Excel and determine a weighted figure value. Much like the complicated quarterback rating it will be a combination of values.
For instance a 10 point Battle Droid may be worth less than a 10 point Wookiee Scout, on my weighted scale.
Vader may not be worthy of 50 points on the current Attacktix scale of 10s, but he is definitely 45, since he IS the most powerful figure in the game, imo. And since they don't do 5s, and 50 may be too much, the argument is moot.
So I will develop my scale and get back to you
|
|
|
Post by boudreauxshakey on Aug 28, 2005 8:46:08 GMT -5
he is not too powerful just stay away from him knock down his troopers then hes easy to kill aand if he does get close hit him with a stricker cause there is a chance hes not white and if it he is then if you hit him far enough then he has to stand up there and you can avoid him a bit longer
|
|
|
Post by YodaBreaker on Aug 28, 2005 13:23:27 GMT -5
I say 'yes' too - he is freakin' difficult to kill! Force blasters can't take him down, shooters can't take him down & a strike has to be SUPER powerful to take him down. AND if you take him down he may just stand back up anyway! GRRRRR. His movement is so high that unless you (the opposing team) is in a super-duper defensive formation he will reach your figs and smack them down in no time. I hate Vader!!!!! Actually, if you've got a striker near that you're pretty sure your opponent's going to use (e.g., Armored Vader), it's best to scatter your figures out of formation to avoid having all of them felled in one strike.
|
|
warlordofmars
30 Point Captain
????!???? ????????????????? ?
Posts: 209
|
Post by warlordofmars on Aug 28, 2005 15:58:05 GMT -5
I can't believe we're even asking this question! If you were the absolute coolest character out of the 3 coolest movies ever, wouldn't you deserve to be too powerful! I personally believe he should have had a lead base compared to the other plastic base figures and he still would've deserved it. (Hmmm, maybe my next custom should be that). Anyway, Vader ROCKS!!!
|
|
|
Post by Joe Manzo on Aug 28, 2005 22:07:53 GMT -5
Right he IS the most powerful figure in the movies... and he is the most powerful human-figure in the game. The AT-RT should be more powerful than everyone else too. He is, and he is also worth more than 40 points.
I do not doubt that Vader SHOULD be stronger, but he should also cost more. Hulk is a madman when it comes to points in Heroclix. He IS the strongest... and I believe at one time also the highest point value.
I can take him down with any 10 point shooter, and pretty much every striker. So this is not a problem for me... but if you want newbie-friends to ever play this game with you again, don't use Vader... or they will feel cheated.
He has some extra "edge" and it should be accounted for.
|
|
|
Post by Yaggleberry Finn on Aug 29, 2005 9:00:05 GMT -5
Actually, if you've got a striker near that you're pretty sure your opponent's going to use (e.g., Armored Vader), it's best to scatter your figures out of formation to avoid having all of them felled in one strike. *Sigh* I had just demonstrated to my wife how to properly use Vader, and then in the following game she took out all four of my grouped Jedi in one shot. I honestly left them in formation because I didn't think she could pull it off. I won't make that mistake again!
|
|
Lonestar
30 Point Warrior
????#???? ????????????? ?
Posts: 666
|
Post by Lonestar on Aug 29, 2005 9:44:47 GMT -5
Once again, I would have to say that I agree for the most part with YodaBreaker and Yaggleberryfinn.
The key to beating Vader is to take out his supporting troopers first. This goes as well for Starter Vader, Starter Obi, and Mace as well. Take their special out of play before going after them. Vader is a little tougher to take out because of his balance, but the thing that I do think sets him apart from the rest a little 'unrealistically' is the speed. Especially in the capture the flag games. I can see where he might have a little bit of an advantage in that type of game and there probably should be an oppisition player to match his speed.
Other than that, I do feel that he should be the strongest figure and is right about where he should be during most regular gameplay. He is the strongest, but not unbeatable.
|
|