Post by superflytnt on Jul 2, 2007 16:35:40 GMT -5
<Note From Chair> Just for clarity, the options that have been raised thus far are: 1. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to Back-Ups and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died. (1=SWAP) 2. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died. (2=Defeated to DP, Backup to Spot Where Defeated) 3. Transform is just a substitute word for "RECRUIT" and the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the START LINE. (3=Recruit)
And remember, these are not finite - you may raise NEW options at any point.
FYI - Radar is R2D2 (see the Radar dish), DONP is the Autobot-bearing Gunship, and Malform is the one on the left with no crest on his head as well as the earbuds (see Malform's label on his guys). I agree, excellent work.
Last Edit: Jul 2, 2007 16:36:57 GMT -5 by superflytnt
Post by YodaBreaker on Jul 2, 2007 23:40:34 GMT -5
I'm going to make an argument for Transform being thematically appropriate as it's currently played. If the "Transform" power were to be entirely thematically correct, it would probably be an effect, rather than a special power. As I understand things in-universe, a Transformer doesn't transform only when it's smacked around. Rather, it can transform whenever it pleases - and would probably be inhibited in the transformation process by being knocked down. Thus, from my thematic perspective, the only way a figure in-universe would have sufficient time to Transform would be if it were knocked back from the action and could transmute into its alternate form. This option is best represented by Option 3, especially because it reflects the damage that has been done to the Transformer in its former mode.
From my game play perspective, option 3 represents the proper "cost" to a team for a figure's transformation. Again, I assume that being knocked down is thematically a different matter from an ordinary transformation. Rather than being a willful, easy transformation, the sort of transformation represented by the Transform power represents a severe violation to the integrity of the Transformer, such that it's so damaged that it wouldn't ordinarily be able to assume that form again (especially in a 100-point game). Placing this damaged form in the defeated area represents this damage nicely, and Rally powers can be seen as something akin to "magically" hammering out the dents incurred by its violent Transformation. Placing it in the defeated area also approximates the appropriate cost to the team of having one mode defeated, and it keeps rulings consistent with figures that have other special powers in which the figure's final resting place is not specified (e.g., SW S3 Obi-Wan Kenobi's Force Pushes don't necessarily mean he should go into backups to be resurrected as a Force ghost, Marvel S1 Wolverine's Recover doesn't necessarily entail his return to backups to spin his healing factor until called into action again). Indeed, the quickstart guides have been remarkably consistent in ruling that absent the actions of special powers, defeated figures go into the defeated area after the resolution of special powers.
Post by superflytnt on Jul 5, 2007 23:24:02 GMT -5
DoNP Abstains on the rebuttal.
NOW TO VOTE!
To reiterate (cut and paste copy..):
1. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to Back-Ups and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died. (1=SWAP) 2. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died. (2=Defeated to DP, Backup to Spot Where Defeated) 3. Transform is just a substitute word for "RECRUIT" and the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the START LINE. (3=Recruit)
It does not mean "fling the Evader into someone else then stand him up". It does not mean "fling someone else into the Evader". It does not mean calling your shot and then "accidentally" defeating the Evader.
What Evade means is that no matter what happens, the Evader resets to where he was pre-attack and all effects that said Evader causes during the attack are nullified. If the Evader is knocked over, he goes to where he was pre-knock over. If the Evader hits someone else and the other guy falls but the Evader doesn't, the other guy stands up since the Evader shouldn't have taken the hit in the first place. If the Evader hits someone else and they both fall, both stand up. If the Evader hits someone who then hits someone else and all three fall, all three reset.
Evade means Evade everything. All effect caused to or caused by an Evade figure during another figures attack is nullified because the Evader never should have gotten hit in the first place. Period, end of story.
"All in all, a most unpleasant fellow." - Obi-Wan's candid thoughts on General Grievous
thinking back, I was trying to remember what the controversy over evade was.... If I recall correctly, the problem was with the possible collateral damage of figures being knocked over by ricochets, or other flying figures.
I would think that if evade came into play then none of the factions specified are allowed to be defeated by any means at all. Im not saying they cant be knocked down, Im saying they cant be defeated. Its nearly impossible to decide whether or not a figure was intentionally attacked or not in certain situations.
There are situations however that it is completely clear to a blind man if there was an intentional attack on a figure that is protected under the evade special. For instance, lets say that my opponent is currently enjoying the protection of evade for ewoks, and he surrounds a striker Luke with wickets so that I may not harm Luke. I dont think I should be able to blast the pile of wickets with a striker vader, kill Luke, and stand back up the rest.
So I think that obvious direct attacks against a figure protected by an active evade is a big bad "no no".... If an evade enabled figure is knocked over as a result of a ricochet, just stand him back up and continue like nothing happened.