Anyone mind if I add a mini-rebuttal to my vote since I didn't get one in before voting began?
I personally think everyone should vote "3.", even if only in order to clear up the Transform powers. Absolutely no interpretation of names with no erratas kills that power making choice 1 a very bad choice. Even if one only wants to get Transform's "Vehicle mode" worries out, just vote 3.
3. No Interpretation of names, but with Errata that will be discussed at a later date.
Last Edit: Jun 23, 2007 20:50:39 GMT -5 by grievous
"All in all, a most unpleasant fellow." - Obi-Wan's candid thoughts on General Grievous
Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 23, 2007 20:19:00 GMT -5
If I may, I'd like to raise a point of clarification before voting. Are we voting on the aforementioned options, assuming that this note is still in effect? Given grievous's rebuttal, it might make sense to clarify this, once and for all.
<NOTE FROM THE CHAIR REGARDING TYPOS AND ERROR FIGURES>
Typos are just that - misprints are just that. Let's assume for the debate that these are anomalies and are not subject to the purview of these rules. Further, the use of the word "Imperial" is still viable as Imperial is the adjective of the word "Empire", and hence one in the same.
Given that we're not Hasbro, I vote: 1. NO Interpretation of names.
I can see holding to a strict set of rules for tournaments, but kids should not be discouraged from interpreting figures (at my tournament yesterday, a kid tried to put one of the big dual guns from the battle case into play, he was having a great time). So, I think it is important to not let him do that during a tournament, but still encourage it during normal game play.
I think there should be some interpretation, but that can (and should) be done through errata.
So, for a tournament, there should be #3. No Interpretation of names, but with Errata that will be discussed at a later date.
Post by superflytnt on Jun 26, 2007 16:45:14 GMT -5
ARGUMENT #3 - How should the Transform play mechanic come into effect?
Alrighty folks! We're moving along here, and the next item up for bid is the "Transform" conundrum. I know this is going to be a bit heated, but I want everyone involved to remember that we're all allowed equal time, and none of us are Hasbro Lap-Dogs, so feel free to make the rules as you WANT them to be, and Hasbro be d**ned. Remember that these are ALTERNATIVE rules, and should be BETTER than Hasbro can produce.
So, here's my Argument:
I believe that the Transform power indicates a 'swapping of figures' from one area to another, BUT I think that SOP, who is vastly overpowered to begin with, should not get an additional advantage. I know there's others like Skyblast, but still I feel that SOP will be the primary beneficiary.
That being said, I am proposing a few options initially, but please feel free to opine, refute, or give alternate ideas:
1. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to Back-Ups and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died. 2. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died. 3. Transform is just a substitute word for "RECRUIT" and the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the START LINE.
I am in favor of the SECOND option. My reasoning is, as I stated before, to stop figures like SOP from having an overwhelming advantage. Transform should allow a figure to come in from backups at the 'death bed' of the figure that called it into play, but the defeated figure should be removed from play and put in the Defeated Area.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2007 16:46:45 GMT -5 by superflytnt
I'm in favor of option two. It is my opinion that option three (Hasbro's option) is lame while option one is overpowered and to much of a change that could easily unbalance the game with the percentages of the powers.
Another issue I have with #1 is because we'd then have to define what back-ups entail. This would be another point we'd have to iron out and one where there really is nothing but opinion to. I can count three possibilities for how it works, as follows:
1. Your back-ups are an alloted amount, not an area you can fill to a certain amount. In other words in a one-hundred point game, you get fifty points of back-ups, period. Nothing can go into the back-ups at all. There is no "cap" like 30/50, you just have 30 and can never change that amount once you've started with it. This effectively makes your maximum back-ups, assuming a one-hundred points game, the following:
2. Your back-ups are half the total point cost of your game. There is a cap involved that is equal to that amount. Your back-ups can go up to that amount but never over it. In a 100-point game, it'd look like this:
You can never do something like:
3. Your starting back-ups are half the total point cost of your game. There is not a cap on these back-ups. You can add any amount over the initial total. In a one-hundred point game, it'd look like this:
50/oo (Imagine that's an infinity sign )
My point of this? I don't know, really, other than the fact that we'd have to go through this eventually. I'd personally go with option 2 here but that's just me.
But, anyways, I think that option two is a nice compromise and would fit the idea of Transform well without a large possibility of overpowering or overly complicating any rules.
In a quick clarification since this post is quite the mess (thanks for catching me on that, superfly ) I'm currently in favor of:
2. Transform means that the figure that was DEFEATED goes to the defeated area, and the corresponding figure goes from Back-Ups to the spot where the DEFEATED figure died.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2007 20:28:11 GMT -5 by grievous
"All in all, a most unpleasant fellow." - Obi-Wan's candid thoughts on General Grievous
My whole problem with transform stems from the feeling that they just had it all wrong from the beginning. I feel that attacktix has allot of room for small alterations here and there, to allow for all sorts of different options in game play. With every new series we seem to see some new special or effect that expands in a direction that we have never thought of. the newer vanquish figures stay alive by taking figures out of opponent defeated area, new SW5 figures are going to effect game play essentially from the side lines while they just sit there doing nothing in backups.
So, why.... Why I ask you, would transform be a renamed recruit? Why would you want to incorporate the transformers universe into your battle figure game, and try and make it fit the mold of the game. But expand the boundaries of the game to make other less important tricks fit? Transform is the core idea of transformers.... Sounds stupid to say it, but thats why they are called transformers! So if there is any special or effect that should expand the boundaries of the game, it IS transform.
I say that a transformed figure is NOT defeated at all, he is transformed, and therefor placed into backups. The figure entering the game should be placed where the transformed figure fell.
I wouldnt worry too much about ol' SOP... I have only seen the robot form turn up white once.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2007 18:50:29 GMT -5 by malform
Post by ionicdesign on Jun 27, 2007 22:23:01 GMT -5
It has to be either option one or two for me. My wife and I have always played it like option 1, it just felt like the way to do it. It allows the Transformers Series to be more competitive (my wife is a big fan of Skyblast (as she likes Prodders)) and just makes sense logically.
For Hasbro to say it is just "recruit" for transformers lacks purpose. If it is just "recruit for Transformers" than why not just have it be recruit (simplicity over redundant Specials).
When a Transformer transforms, their other form is neither created, nor destroyed, it is just changed. For that reason I would suggest that they swap places in backups. This would make the Faction more powerful, and from what I can see with my own use of the figures, as well as what happened after the Botcon Tourney last year (Yodabreaker's match with Hasbro) I don't think that will create a problem.
When Transforming, it is the same character, not another, just manipulated into a new form, so why would he (Arcee excepting) go back on the starting line? It would be more logical to have the character remain where they were. Yes, they might get knocked back down, but such is life.
Post by YodaBreaker on Jun 27, 2007 22:25:15 GMT -5
I'm in favor of Option 3. It's no secret that I don't think we should be rewriting powers - rather, my position has been that we should clarify things on which rulings haven't been issued, or on which contradictory rulings have been issued. This has been one of the most consistent rulings that's come down, with gameplay reasons that have already been described, so I'm sticking to it. Furthermore, this sort of rewriting is a dangerous precedent that threatens to render our "rulings" as irrelevant to the broader Attacktix-playing community, in my opinion.