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Post by malform on Mar 12, 2007 11:00:00 GMT -5
The "The First Presleyterian Church of Elvis the Divine" is my personal favorite.  |
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 12, 2007 11:21:47 GMT -5
Alrighty -- In light of some 'feedback' I have received I feel the imperitave to make the following statement:
"In my previous post, I was NOT IN ANY WAY implying that the Jedi pseudo-religion is in any way similar or of similar respect, understanding, or following of the Mormon, or rather Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I was simply stating that there are many works of literature that have, throughout history, changed the way some view religion and faith".
Thank you for your understanding ;D
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Post by ionicdesign on Mar 12, 2007 11:25:08 GMT -5
So do the Jedi church guys have working lightsabres? That would be quite the recruiting tool.
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Post by redemptionrocks on Mar 12, 2007 12:03:48 GMT -5
I'd join for a real lightsaber...then never show up again.
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 12, 2007 12:37:11 GMT -5
I suspect they DO have light sabers (as in featherweight, and not fencing sabers), and they "swordfight" each other at the 'gathering' in the Jedi Temple of Edwin's Basement.
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Post by greyelephant on Mar 12, 2007 15:48:28 GMT -5
As long as Edwin's mom says it's ok. Sometimes she has a headache and really doesn't want the extra noise.
Do you think they hold prayer in a Yoda voice?
Do you think that they know how to count Midichlorians to see if you are actually worthy of becoming a member?
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 12, 2007 15:57:36 GMT -5
To rebut,
1. I'd say that the REASON they're saber-fighing in the basement due to Mom's headache...if you catch my meaning...and I AM in Kentucky.....
2. Meet and speak Yodese, they do. Much they have to learn in the ways of the human. Rat-moles, they are.
3. What makes you think they can count? The closest they can come to Midichlorian count may be listening to home-made MIDI files of Sesame Street's Count while huffing Clorox.
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Post by greyelephant on Mar 12, 2007 18:21:26 GMT -5
"Dude, I so totally saw Yoda in my torta yesterday at lunch!"
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Post by Yaggleberry Finn on Mar 13, 2007 11:40:45 GMT -5
What constitutes a "real" religion (or what are the essential features of a "real" religion)? And if "Jedi" so qualifies, would it be the first religion to have a video canon? I thought that was a pretty good question, especially as to whether or not Jedi really qualifies. Webster gives these definitions of religion: 1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance 2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices 3: archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness 4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith The word religious is thrown in there a few times, so here's how they define that one: 1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes> 2: of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances <joined a religious order> 3 a: scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b: fervent, zealous In relation to a 1965 court case (US vs Seeger) the Texas Tech Law Review wrote, "The Seeger decision defined religion as all sincere beliefs based upon a power or being or upon a faith, to which all else is subordinate or upon which all else is ultimately dependant." In light of these definitions, I'm not sure Jedi really qualifies as a religion. I don't know what their particular practices are (and right now I really don't have the time to research them) but if the article is even close to correct then a lot of it sounds more like a really intense Star Wars fan club. And it could also mark a general apathy toward religion. That these people would rather be associated with Star Wars than anything else out there. Yes, but most of those were sold as actual religions. It doesn't matter if they're true or not, the creators' intent for all of those were probably religious. This brings up an alternate question - which, if any, religion is true? I'm not looking for a debate here, and I know the forum tends to stay most peaceful if we don't talk intensely about religion or politics, so I will just throw out that I think it's a good question. And incidentally I think it's a question Lucas himself was trying to stir up. I'd read the quote before, but it was mentioned again in the article that started this thread: Lucas said, "I would hesitate to call the Force God. It's designed primarily to make young people think about the mystery. Not to say, ‘Here's the answer.’ It’s to say, Think about this for a second. Is there a God? What does God look like? What does God sound like? What does God feel like? How do we relate to God? Just getting young people to think at that level is what I've been trying to do in the films." |
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 14, 2007 9:58:40 GMT -5
The truth NEVER changes, and never has. It's our UNDERSTANDING of the truth that changes.
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Post by ionicdesign on Mar 14, 2007 10:11:19 GMT -5
True enough, well said. Truth is eternal, how much of it we have and grasp is what is in question.
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Ataru
40 Point Leader
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Posts: 1,017
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Post by Ataru on Mar 14, 2007 13:17:25 GMT -5
I enjoy debate, especially on this topic. I once had a thread called, "do you like WalMart" and it stirred up some very interesting theological discussions. Sure, YodaBreaker didn't like that (it was off-topic) but it was a thread that raised some very burning questions. Someone did mention how all religions have their own version of Jesus and angels. But doesn't that just go to prove the existance of Jehovah God? (I'm not a Jehovah's Witness, that's just one of His names.) I mean, Christianity was out there first, no one can argue with that. All the rest are just copies. Almost every religion has their own flood story, too...
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 14, 2007 14:59:59 GMT -5
How little you know abou this then! ;D HISTORICALLY, we know Judaism was first (recorded in that little book Jews call the Torah, Christians call the Old Testament) that we truly know a lot of. BUT, we know at the same time were pagan gods such as Ra, Isis, and that pantheon of 'gods' that the Egyptians called out to in times of need. The Romans had their planet/star-based gods such as Mercury, Venus and Mars, the Greeks had their Mythical Beings on Mount Olympus such as Thor, Zeus, and Athena, the Nords had other polytheistic beliefs in Valkyries and Wyrms and Odin, and as time went on, so did the different gods and demigods in different sects and cultures. Then let's not forget the multitude of Christian spin-offs such as Eastern and Roman Orthadox, Baptists, Presbyterians....heck, even England made their own church up so a King could divorce, the Anglicans, who now accept women and homosexual priests! How delightful! ;D Remember, any RELIGION can be made up, like the Jedi, or whatever, to fill a void in one's life when they are seeking enlightenment, or the 'Truth'. This does not nessecarily mean that these religions are untrue or false, that's a matter of FAITH.
That being said, even the Israelites had faltered, I mean even after Moses rescued them from the Egyptians wielding the power of God, bringing them through the desert by using God's power to give them quail, manna, and water, they STILL got tired of waiting for him to come down from Mt. Sinai (because they HAD RELIGION BUT LACKED FAITH) , so they got all the gold in town and made a big Bull to worship. Funny how today when someone is making things up we call it "Bull"...
The thing to remember is that there is a HUGE difference between faith and religion. Religion is an organization that is devoted to the service and worship of an entity, FAITH is the belief in said entity. I ABHOR religion, just as Jesus did in the temple when he told the rabbis that they had turned the house of God into a den of thieves, but I have complete, unabashed, and unambiguous faith that there is a God, and he had a son, and his son saved the world.
Anyone can have religion, look at the hundreds of thousands of Christians, Jews, and others that go to church, temple, synagogue, mosque....pray, put on the happy face, then go home and do EXACTLY the opposite of what they were SUPPOSED to believe was a sin. Then they go back to church, 'repent and beg forgiveness' and then rinse/repeat forever. I believe faith is the hard part, religion is the sinner's easy way out. Let's take Jim Jones, for instance. They had religion AND faith, and look where it got them (Don't Drink The Kool-Aid). Same with the Manson family, Religion AND Faith, and look how they ended up.
So, all this being said, the Truth about religion is that it almost ALWAYS is a method of controlling subjects/disciples and spreading the manifesto, whereas Faith is where the Truth lies. Unfortunately, when the lights go out and the last beat of your heart takes place, that's the ONLY time that you will find out that your faith was true, or false. That, my friends, is why it's called Faith - the belief in something you cannot see, touch, smell, taste, or feel (tangibly). And by that token, remember that "Thinking something is true" is not faith, but KNOWING that something is true, despite all odds and all of the criticisms, is true Faith.
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Ataru
40 Point Leader
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Posts: 1,017
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Post by Ataru on Mar 14, 2007 15:35:31 GMT -5
Ha ha, superflytnt, whoah did I get you going! ;D
Well, yes, but Christianity does accept the Torah and the Old Testament (while we do not believe in other religions as being true)... or at least we accept them in the sense that you can still learn from them, and they are true (or were true), though our allegiance is now to Jesus and the New Testament first, and the ways of the Torah second, if you know what I mean. We no longer have all those unclean and clean animal laws. And also, I take it by FAITH that the Bible is true, and thus, Adam and Eve existed and had a personal relationship with God. Thus, they also had a personal relationship with his son... get what I'm saying? I think Christian is a term that we've coined that means "someone who believes in Jehovah God and His Son, Jesus Christ". Sure, it also means that we were washed clean by the blood of Jesus, but when I used the phrase I simply meant that it is those who do not believe in pagan gods and follow the One True God, who are Christian. Come to think of it that was a stupid phrase to use... and also, I guess you are right in saying that pagan gods had their orgins somewhere around that Torah Time... so yeah, I will take it by faith that my God is the One True God, and that Him and his people have been around long before man-invented gods...
Ditto. Well said, brother in Christ!
That was a great post you made and I'm glad I made an error in my last post that inspired it. Thanks, superflytnt!
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 14, 2007 16:49:15 GMT -5
No, siree, you didn't get me going at all. Seeing as I started the post, and then it became a discussion of religion vs. faith, I decided to throw in some historical facts to make the discussion more about faith than what makes a 'religion' valid, when in fact in my opinion very few 'Religions' are valid, yet many faiths are indeed valid (albeit WRONG). It is not the way of the Christian to hate thy neighbors, regardless of their religion/faith, only to witness to them.
;D And who would have though ANY of this would come from ME of all people!
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