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Post by superflytnt on Mar 11, 2007 2:03:28 GMT -5
Folks, there is no way that I can possibly describe this...all I'll say is that there are, NO BS, at least 70,000 Jedi walking planet earth right this very moment. You've GOT to see this news story... www.explorefaith.org/news/05_17_05.html
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Post by Turkish Van Cat on Mar 11, 2007 2:45:32 GMT -5
Hmm, that is an interesting article. I knew that there were a lot of people registering as "Jedi" for their religion, but I didn't know there were several hundred thousand (plus some). Wow...
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Post by grievous on Mar 11, 2007 8:49:37 GMT -5
I've heard of this. It's pretty dumb if you ask me. Go ahead and follow the Jedi code but don't go trying to establish it as an official religion. That's like petitioning to have Klingon added to the rolls as an official language. It's not, your insane for wanting it on there, and it'll never happen because it is a fictional work. Don't try to force a religion from a movie (where it isn't a religion) into the rolls as a religion.
I inadvertently follow the Jedi Code 90% of the time because that just happens to be where my moral standards fall. It doesn't mean that I'm going to call myself a Jedi and want to be able to claim it on my census sheet.
Finally, I wonder how many of these "Jedi" are merely using the no marriage rule in the Jedi Code as an excuse to why they're forty and still living in their parents' basement... ;D
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Post by malform on Mar 11, 2007 10:24:34 GMT -5
I've heard of this. It's pretty dumb if you ask me. Go ahead and follow the Jedi code but don't go trying to establish it as an official religion. That's like petitioning to have Klingon added to the rolls as an official language. It's not, your insane for wanting it on there, and it'll never happen because it is a fictional work. Don't try to force a religion from a movie (where it isn't a religion) into the rolls as a religion. Never happen huh? Scientology is a religion based off books written by a science fiction author.
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Post by grievous on Mar 11, 2007 10:36:03 GMT -5
Really? Wow... I knew scientology was odd but that's just... odd.
Still, was the author pushing it as an actual religion? I really don't think George Lucas intended for The Force to become a religion (he did state it was meant to make people think about spirituality) so that probably would help my case if the author was actually meaning to sell it as that and it turned into that. Otherwise it seems to me that there are some fans that take things WAY to far.
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Post by malform on Mar 11, 2007 12:28:13 GMT -5
Scientology is very strange to me. I have done allot of reading about it, and its really hard to decipher if L. Ron Hubbard (the author) intended to sell it as a religion or not. It really seems to be hard to find any really solid answers about it at all. Basically, as I understand it, the 2 books "scientology" and "dianetics" are the real outlines of the "religion". It appears that these books were written as more of a self help kind of thing, how it all got rolled into a "religion" is hard to decipher. At any rate, its a very sketchy religion to say the least. They have teams of attorneys that try to keep core ideas and philosophies of the religion a secret. And most believe it to be a money sucking cult. Its an interesting thing to read about, in my opinion. You can find all kinds of stuff on it just by googling. *note* This is not a recruiting post for Scientology. My personal opinion on it, is that you would have to be some kind of freak to believe in Xenu. Hope I dont get sued for that.
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Post by YodaBreaker on Mar 11, 2007 13:44:19 GMT -5
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Post by greyelephant on Mar 11, 2007 13:44:04 GMT -5
People are lost and are looking into anything that makes them feel good and to be the almighty answer to life. It's sad really, that people could get so wrapped up in such a cult like society until it becomes real to them and reality drifts away.
I think that I will start a new religion on Pillsbury. We could all walk around with chef hats on and giggle like we were high. Then we could eat tons of biscuits and cookies to satisfy our munchies. We will worship the almighty Dough Boy and beg his forgivness................... Muwahhhaaahhhaaahhhaaa!
Now if you believe in Jedi why not this? What's the difference?
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Ataru
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Post by Ataru on Mar 11, 2007 18:05:26 GMT -5
I read that article a few days ago and I was a bit shocked. Though if I give it enough thought, it makes perfect sense. People who like Star Wars often like it way, way too much. Sometimes I feel like I'm worshipping it myself.
This is exactly what I would have said... if I could choose the right words like that... but yeah, I think anything can become a cult. Even your Pillsbury dough boys... er, that might take a little time to grow into anything substantial...
But yeah, as a Christian, I find it really sad that people choose to think about and worship Star Wars over God. It actually makes me want to slow down my Star Wars fandom. Star Wars is like cocaine; it's addictive. I mean, George Lucas originally wanted it to explore religion, not become a religion in itself.
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Zincdust
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Post by Zincdust on Mar 11, 2007 18:50:36 GMT -5
I think that I will start a new religion on Pillsbury. We could all walk around with chef hats on and giggle like we were high. Then we could eat tons of biscuits and cookies to satisfy our munchies. We will worship the almighty Dough Boy and beg his forgivness. I'll join that cul..., er, religion!! Where do I send my check to?! ;D
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Post by YodaBreaker on Mar 11, 2007 19:45:34 GMT -5
Folks, there is no way that I can possibly describe this...all I'll say is that there are, NO BS, at least 70,000 Jedi walking planet earth right this very moment. You've GOT to see this news story... www.explorefaith.org/news/05_17_05.htmlKeep in mind that that particular figure is just for Australia. However, it really does being up this interesting question: What constitutes a "real" religion (or what are the essential features of a "real" religion)? And if "Jedi" so qualifies, would it be the first religion to have a video canon? I've been pondering this a bit ever since those "Belief in the Jedi" text ads popped up on the forum's ads, with links to that article (or something very similar). I've heard of this. It's pretty dumb if you ask me. Go ahead and follow the Jedi code but don't go trying to establish it as an official religion. That's like petitioning to have Klingon added to the rolls as an official language. It's not, your insane for wanting it on there, and it'll never happen because it is a fictional work. Don't try to force a religion from a movie (where it isn't a religion) into the rolls as a religion. Actually, Admiral Motti in EpIV seems to refer to Vader's following the way of the Force as his "sad devotion to that ancient religion". Thus, it would seem to be a religion in-universe. Furthermore, I'm not sure how one would go about adding Klingon to "the rolls as an official language," but it's got a coherent vocabulary, syntax, and grammar. There's even a Klingon Language Institute. If I remember correctly, Mandalorian is in the process of being explicated as nicely as Klingon, though I don't think they have anyone like Marc Okrand leading the canonical charge for Mandalorian. If you argue that Klingon isn't a "real" language because it's not spoken by many people, how would you classify the languages of tribes of people who never numbered more than the few hundreds at any given time? And if you argue that it's not a "real" language because it's not used as the primary language for some sorts of "important" economic or social transactions, what about the same sorts of languages that are just culturally preserved but are not used for any substantial economic or social business in current times? I'll join that cul..., er, religion!! Where do I send my check to?! ;D Click the "Contact Us" link on this page; I'm sure General Mills will be glad to take your donation
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 11, 2007 22:34:14 GMT -5
Like....I don't know....Aramaic? ;D
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Post by grievous on Mar 12, 2007 7:19:16 GMT -5
I'm not gonna get into an argument over what should be considered language/religion and what shouldn't. I will however defend my point swiftly and quickly.
Very few things from a fictional work should be translated to reality. It's an opinion, yes, but it is mine and it is the one that I want and most likely won't change. No one is pushing for Elven to be official (as far as I know), no one wants to be able to speak Huttese (even if I can speak a little), I haven't heard a petition for official 1337 speak, and I don't want someone (like myself) to create some crazy language then petition for it to be added to the official rolls by getting enough followers. There is no use in adding Klingon or Jedi to the official lists of language and religion other than to appease a bunch of Trekkies and Warsies (by the way, Australia also had a group who put down their religion as Pastafarian a few years back. They do crazy stuff and this Jedi business is an extension of that, not so much of nerdiness).
Also, the Motti quote shouldn't be trusted. He had a high-level of disdain for The Force and its followers and would therefore not have any idea what he's talking about. Heck, he called something that used to be used every day twenty years earlier "ancient".
Finally, I've always taken Jedi/Sith-ism in the movies as more of a Buddhism-type thing. Not exactly a religion since you aren't really worshiping anything but still a spiritual belief. Therefore, I partially take back what I said about it not being a religion in the movies. It sort of it, it sort of isn't.
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Post by superflytnt on Mar 12, 2007 9:37:08 GMT -5
I would disagree a bit about fictional works not playing a pivotal role in religion, or not translating well:
1. Dianetics becomes Scientology. 2. Dune's Fremen practiced what was called "Zen-Sunni", a mix of Arabic Sunni Islam and Buddhist. This (arguably) changed a generation's perspective on religion and the evils that can be done in the name of a God. 3. The Da Vinci Code changed the way some look at Christianity, and how it may be nothing more than a council of guys 1700 years ago making it all up. This produced (more) Athiests and Agnostics, arguably, than quite a few recent publications. 4. Mein Kampf changed a 'mostly' peaceful nation into a bunch of Jew murdering (or at least implicatory to the murder) bunch of nationalist zealots that tried to take over the world. 5. (I know this is going to get me into trouble...) The Book of Mormon, probably the most famous work of fiction (depending on your beliefs) that ended up being a VERY large mainstream religious movement. Ask a Christian about the second coming of Christ and how the book of Mormon (which states that Jesus came down again, in human form) and talked with Joseph Smith about things....you'll get a debate to last a century.
There are others, but this does illustrate that books and religion can have huge impacts on issues of faith and religion. Jedis though? I guess we'll have to add that to the mix! All it would take in this country for Jedi-ism to become a recognized religion would be for an orgainization to apply for tax-exempt status, OR for an official to apply for an Ordained Ministership (which is really WAY too easy).
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Post by grievous on Mar 12, 2007 10:19:21 GMT -5
Yes, but most of those were sold as actual religions. It doesn't matter if they're true or not, the creators' intent for all of those were probably religious. As far as overly silly "religions" that are from works that are meant to be fictional, my personal favorite is the First Reformed Church of Spongebob. Probably meant to be a joke but still quite hilarious. Another thing to take into account is that the "Jedi Census Phenomenon" was mostly a practical joke and not meant to be an actual religion.
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