What i think!!!!!

[bobafetch0007]

People seemed to be confused during episode 2 and 3 when master sifo dyas's name was put into play.

I think Sifo Dyas was Palpatines master pretending to be a JEDI (and that would explain who taught palpatine to study both the way of the sith and the jedi) Sifo Dyas ordered the clones so he could betray the jedi,But S-Dyas taught Palpatine so much that Palpatine killed him in his sleep(as u find out in episode 3) Then Palpatine got the army for himself, but since the people on Kamino only knew S-Dyas as a jedi they were expecting only a jedi to arrive there!
The clones were trained with the commands S-Dyas gave them (such as order 66) Thats when Palpatine betrayed the jedi to make his own Empire!!

Thats is what i think any one else think something different?

[YodaBreaker]

bobafetch0007 said:

Thats is what i think any one else think something different?

Yes. An interesting theory, but it would suggest that Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi and a Sith simultaneously - and that though he was around Jedi constantly, he concealed his dark side energies from them. A most powerful Sith he would have had to have been to do this.

[vadersfist]

Well I think master "Psycho'deas;D" is the Jedi who
trained Yoda.

[redemptionrocks]

Intresting theory. Well considering he taught palps and palps consealed it....

[MasterTiMothee]

Darth Plagueis was Darth Sidious' master, killed in his sleep by Sidious. Where did you pick up the idea that Syfo-Dias and Darth Plagueis were the same? According---I think---to Dark Rendezvous, Labyrinth of Evil, and Legacy of the Jedi, Syfo-Dias was a loyal Jedi who ordered the creation of the clone army made. He did so believing that the Republic would need an army, but without the sanction of the Jedi Council. (Sort of like---in my humble opinion---the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ... Syfo-Dias was a well-meaning leader who initiated acts that he believed were right and that would result in war but who lacked the foresight to see the long-term ramifications of his actions for the liberty and security of the very Republic that he sincerely desired to protect.)

When Count Dooku left the Jedi Order, Dooku became Palpatine's apprentice with the intent of destroying Palpatine and uprooting the corruption that was rotting the Republic from the inside out---he truly was a political idealist, as Ki-Adi Mundi notes in Episode II. As a test of loyalty, Palpatine instructed Dooku to murder Syfo-Dias, which Dooku did. Dooku---now Darth Tyranus---met with Jango Fett and enlisted him as a template for the clones, then went to Kamino and completed the process that Syfo-Dias had started. It was at this point that the programming for Order 66 was introduced.

Darth Sidious knew that---though Dooku despised the Jedi Order for its blindness to the Republic's corruption and for the Order's hubris that prevented them from sensing the rise of the Sith as well as remaining fearful of passion and connection---Dooku's goals were different from his own. It was for this reason that he manipulated events to result in Dooku's death prior to Anakin's fall.

[sfx5000]

I believe that the current consensus is that Syfo-Dias was a loyal Jedi and had nothing to do with the ordering of the Clone Army. Obi-Wan stated in Ep. 2 that Dias was dead before the Army was ordered.

It is thought that in order to prove his loyalty to Sidious Dooku had to kill someone close to him, thus Syfo-Dias. Dooku then used Syfo's name and ordered the Clone Army himself.

[Radar]

I did a little recon and here's what I came up with. It's all from the star wars data base. You guys probably know all this stuff, but it was new to me.

Although the modern era of the Sith is attributed to Darth Bane, and the Dark Jedi that preceded him, the cult can find its roots further back in the galaxy's ancient past. Long before the Republic rose, there lived a culture on the planet Korriban. These primitive people were called the Sith, and the Force flowed strongly through their bloodlines. Although they didn't practice the Force as the Jedi would, they were talented in their own brand of magic.
In the early days of the Jedi, a great schism tore the order apart. Jedi who had tapped the forbidden power of the Force's dark side rebelled against their light-sided brothers. After a terrible war, the Dark Jedi were exiled from the Republic. Past the Republic's growing borders, these castaways discovered Korriban and the Sith people.

Powerful with the dark side, the Jedi outcasts set themselves up as gods on Korriban. The primitive Sith worshipped them as their lords, and so the Jedi grew, and built temples and monuments to celebrate their power. Millennia of interbreeding blurred the distinction between Sith native and offworlder, and the term Sith came to encompass not only the indigenous people of Korriban, but also the powerful overlords that ruled them.

Five thousand years ago, during the Sith Empire's golden age, a Republic explorer vessel stumbled upon the secluded worlds of the Sith. One Sith Lord, Naga Sadow, saw this as an opportunity to invade the Republic, and exact vengeance on the Jedi who had banished them. History would record the invasion that followed as the Great Hyperspace War, and it would be the first of many terrible conflicts between Jedi and Sith.

Time and again the Sith and Jedi would clash, with devastated worlds lying in their wake. The last great conflict took place on the scarred plains of Ruusan. The Sith Lord Kaan and his Brotherhood of Darkness did battle with the Jedi Army of Light. From this onslaught, one Sith escaped: Darth Bane. It was he who would resurrect the order with duplicity and secrecy in mind.
One Sith had the cunning to survive. Darth Bane restructured the cult, so that there could only be two -- no more, no less -- a master, and an apprentice. Bane adopted cunning, subterfuge, and stealth as the fundamental tenets of the Sith order. Bane took an apprentice. When that apprentice succeeded him, that new Sith Lord would take an apprentice.


Behind a curtain of secrecy lurked Darth Sidious, a mysterious Sith Lord and puppet-master of the tumultuous events that brought an end to the Republic. The Sith order had been extinct for a millennium, yet somehow, two survived -- the Master Darth Plagueis and his apprentice, Darth Sidious. Plagueis, the wise, was an adept of some of the most arcane and unnatural applications of the Force. As Sidious described, Plagueis had uncovered a path to immortality through the manipulation of the dark side of the Force. Plagueis could, it was said, coax the midi-chlorians present in all living cells to create life from nothingness.
But for a Sith, immortality was a futile pursuit. The secretive Sith order counted upon the death of a master and the rise of an apprentice to further itself. True to tradition, Sidious killed Plagueis upon learning his Master's secrets. It was then that Sidious took an apprentice, who would eventually become Darth Maul. Maul would be Sidious' blunt instrument, his deadly weapon to carry out his plans while he remained in the shadows, conspiring to take over the Republic in its waning years.

[bobafetch0007]

Theres only one flaw in some of ure guy's theory's. In Episode 2 Obi Wan states that Sifo-Dyas was killed ten years from the time it was when he was on Kamino,which was way before Dooku was Palpy's apprentice!!! Also Sifo-Dyas could have been Darth Plagues because thats the same time he was murdered!!!!!!!!!

[YodaBreaker]

bobafetch0007 said:

Theres only one flaw in some of ure guy's theory's. In Episode 2 Obi Wan states that Sifo-Dyas was killed ten years from the time it was when he was on Kamino,which was way before Dooku was Palpy's apprentice!!! Also Sifo-Dyas could have been Darth Plagues because thats the same time he was murdered!!!!!!!!!

No, it wasn't way before Dooku was Palpatine's apprentice. Dooku became Dark Lord of the Sith in 32 BBY, the same year as Sifo-Dyas was reported killed. Additionally, Wookieepedia has no data on when Plagueis was killed, though it indicates Sidious likely started training the infant Maul before he killed Plagueis.

[MasterTiMothee]

sfx5000 said:

I believe that the current consensus is that Syfo-Dias was a loyal Jedi and had nothing to do with the ordering of the Clone Army. Obi-Wan stated in Ep. 2 that Dias was dead before the Army was ordered.

It is thought that in order to prove his loyalty to Sidious Dooku had to kill someone close to him, thus Syfo-Dias. Dooku then used Syfo's name and ordered the Clone Army himself.

I would respectfully differ with you on this, SFX. Although the canonical sources---the two trilogies---do not clearly spell this out, the deuterocanonical---inspired, though not necessarily inerrant---sources record the following:

1. Dooku seems to have been moving toward contact with Sidious for the purpose of destroying Sidious (Labyrinth of Evil, 61, 135, cited hereafter as, e.g., LE 61, 135). Dooku, thinking at first of killing Sidious, met with Sidious; their conversation led to Dooku believing---with Sidious---that the establishment of an Empire might be the most effective means of moving beyond the faltering Republic (LE 135). This occurred in 32 BBY, after the death of Darth Maul in early 32 BBY at the Battle of Naboo.

2. Dooku did not merely pose as Syfo-Dias to order the clone army. Several of the books state that Syfo-Dias ordered the clone army while he was still a loyal Jedi (LE 136), apparently for the noble purpose of the Republic's security. This had occurred in the mid-30s BBY. Yoda learned of this order, though neither he nor the Jedi Council authorized it---Yoda, in fact, visited Kamino himself (LE 62).

3. Darth Sidious foresaw the creation of the clone army and that it had been ordered by Syfo-Dias for the protection of the Republic (LE 136). Knowing that the Sith could use the army for their benefit, Sidious made the murder of Syfo-Dias a condition of Dooku becoming a full-fledged Sith apprentice (LE 135-136). Dooku did so in mid-32 BBY and slipped fully into the dark side of the Force.

4. Dooku erased the record of Kamino from the archives in mid 32 BBY and then left the Jedi Order---Jocasta Nu discovered evidence of this (LE 63).

5. Dooku wanted to use a clone army to destabilize the Republic, but they clones weren't mature. So, he allied his Separatist movement with the Trade Federation and used the droid army, which the Trade Federation had already formed at the urging of Darth Sidious (LE 63-64). This droid army had already been introduced at the Battle of Naboo.

[devestator]

Sifo Dyas was a jedi, but was captured by Dooku according to "Star wars: Infinities"

Can't we just have one story SW!?!??!

[MasterTiMothee]

The express purpose of Infinities is, however, to express alternate possibilities that are contrary-to-canonical-history---they are, if you will, historically-heretical documents that have been sanctioned for the purpose of exploring "what if this had happened instead of that." ("Heretical" being used here in the early sense of "choosing that which contradicts the actual events.")

For example, in the Infinities version of A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi, Luke's torpedoes experience a technical malfunction, Luke dies on Hoth and Leia is trained as a Jedi instead, and C-3PO can't quite get it right when he's translating for Jabba the Hutt on Tatooine (see, e.g., www.rebelscum.com/darkhorse_infinities.asp ... also the comment at www.starwars.com/eu/lit/comics/news20051222.html). So, Infinities stands outside the official, historical continuity. They do not describe what happened but what might have happened, given a different set of circumstances.

[devestator]

mastertimothee said:

The express purpose of Infinities is, however, to express alternate possibilities that are contrary-to-canonical-history---they are, if you will, historically-heretical documents that have been sanctioned for the purpose of exploring "what if this had happened instead of that." ("Heretical" being used here in the early sense of "choosing that which contradicts the actual events.")

My bad. It was star wars: visionaries.

I know that wasn't made up, because it has the General G background in the SW database

[Radar]

....when we are discussing a science fiction movie; what makes something "made up" or not?

[MasterTiMothee]

radar said:

....when we are discussing a science fiction movie; what makes something "made up" or not?

Yeah, I know---but, within the context of this forum, I'm accepting as "true" the canonical continuity of Star Wars.

If it's in Visionaries, then I'd assume that Dooku captured Syfo-Dias before killing him? I don't know ... I haven't read the Visionaries series.