Vader's love?

[redemptionrocks]

I've made quite the interesting observation about the transition from Anakin Skylwalker's turn to the dark side and back. In Episode II, upon his mother's death, Anakin swore he would learn to stop people from dying. This quest became even more urgent when Padme's life was in danger in Episode III. To discover this power to save the ones he loved, Anakin turned to the dark side, which eventually led him to tell his wife, "Love won't save you, only my new powers can." Minutes later he tried to kill her. He did NOT have the power to save people from death.

Later on, in Episode VI, Anakin(now Darth Vader) is defeated by his own son and left virtually powerless. Upon Luke Skywalker's refusal to turn to the dark side, Emperor Palpatine tried to kill him. Luke lay there, suffering and dying, crying out for his father, Anakin, to save him. In that moment, Vader releazied he COULD save someone from death, but only with his love, not with any sort of power. That was the key to Anakin coming back to the light side, him realizing the them of 1 Corinthians 13, about how you can rule the earth, but without love it means nothing.

[YodaBreaker]

redemptionrocks said:

I've made quite the interesting observation about the transition from Anakin Skylwalker's turn to the dark side and back. In Episode II, upon his mother's death, Anakin swore he would learn to stop people from dying. This quest became even more urgent when Padme's life was in danger in Episode III. To discover this power to save the ones he loved, Anakin turned to the dark side, which eventually led him to tell his wife, "Love won't save you, only my new powers can." Minutes later he tried to kill her. He did NOT have the power to save people from death.

Sure he did. He could have just not attempted to reach beyond his powers. EpIII is a classic case of "be careful what you wish for; you might get it." Or he could have followed a path that he had already accepted by continuing to train in the Jedi way, rather than try to do a radical mid-course correction: "This above all / to thine own self be true." Or he could have used a bit more insight to recognize how arrogant and foolish he was: "Know thyself." Or she should have just stayed put, just like Mace said, which would have let Palpy die using his abilities that some consider...unnatural: "Natural selection." Or

Or even better, Qui-Gon could have just not acted on his interpretation of some inane, poorly understood "prophecy."

Later on, in Episode VI, Anakin(now Darth Vader) is defeated by his own son and left virtually powerless. Upon Luke Skywalker's refusal to turn to the dark side, Emperor Palpatine tried to kill him. Luke lay there, suffering and dying, crying out for his father, Anakin, to save him. In that moment, Vader releazied he COULD save someone from death, but only with his love, not with any sort of power. That was the key to Anakin coming back to the light side, him realizing the them of 1 Corinthians 13, about how you can rule the earth, but without love it means nothing.

Or realizing the theme of the Buddha, about how relinquishing all attachments, particularly that of the self to its own existence, is the route to enlightenment. Or realizing the theme of Zoroastrianism, in which the ultimate battle between good and evil results in the destruction of evil. Or realizing the theme of Upanishadic Hinduism, about how only by seeing through the illusions thrown up by the world (i.e., the lies the Emperor fed to Anakin) can you abandon the illusion of your own individuality and attain oneness with the underlying Unity that binds us all together and follow Its will (i.e., the Force).

[Yaggleberry Finn]

Star Wars is definitely is filled with spiritual themes. And that was George Lucas's intention all long.

Lucas was interviewed by Bill Moyers in Time magazine, April 26, 1999. Here are some excerps:

MOYERS: What do you make of the fact that so many people have interpreted your work as being profoundly religious?

LUCAS: I don't see Star Wars as profoundly religious. I see Star Wars as taking all the issues that religion represents and trying to distill them down into a more modern and easily accessible construct--that there is a greater mystery out there. I remember when I was 10 years old, I asked my mother, "If there's only one God, why are there so many religions?" I've been pondering that question ever since, and the conclusion I've come to is that all the religions are true.

MOYERS: Is one religion as good as another?

LUCAS: I would say so. Religion is basically a container for faith. And faith in our culture, our world and on a larger issue, the mystical level--which is God, what one might describe as a supernatural, or the things that we can't explain--is a very important part of what allows us to remain stable, remain balanced.

MOYERS: One explanation for the popularity of Star Wars when it appeared is that by the end of the 1970s, the hunger for spiritual experience was no longer being satisfied sufficiently by the traditional vessels of faith.

LUCAS: I put the Force into the movie in order to try to awaken a certain kind of spirituality in young people--more a belief in God than a belief in any particular religious system. I wanted to make it so that young people would begin to ask questions about the mystery. Not having enough interest in the mysteries of life to ask the question, "Is there a God or is there not a God?"--that is for me the worst thing that can happen. I think you should have an opinion about that. Or you should be saying, "I'm looking. I'm very curious about this, and I am going to continue to look until I can find an answer, and if I can't find an answer, then I'll die trying." I think it's important to have a belief system and to have faith.

MOYERS: Do you have an opinion, or are you looking?

LUCAS: I think there is a God. No question. What that God is or what we know about that God, I'm not sure. The one thing I know about life and about the human race is that we've always tried to construct some kind of context for the unknown. Even the cavemen thought they had it figured out. I would say that cavemen understood on a scale of about 1. Now we've made it up to about 5. The only thing that most people don't realize is the scale goes to 1 million.

MOYERS: One scholar has called Star Wars "mysticism for the masses." You've been accused of trivializing religion, promoting religion with no strings attached.

LUCAS: That's why I would hesitate to call the Force God. It's designed primarily to make young people think about the mystery. Not to say, "Here's the answer." It's to say, "Think about this for a second. Is there a God? What does God look like? What does God sound like? What does God feel like? How do we relate to God?" Just getting young people to think at that level is what I've been trying to do in the films. What eventual manifestation that takes place in terms of how they describe their God, what form their faith takes, is not the point of the movie.

MOYERS: And stories are the way to ask these questions?

LUCAS: When the film came out, almost every single religion took Star Wars and used it as an example of their religion; they were able to relate it to stories in the Bible, in the Koran and in the Torah.

So while I definitely agree with redemptionrocks that there are Biblical themes in Star Wars, it seems that Lucas tried to include ideas from many different belief systems in order to encourage spiritual questioning. It would also seem (by his own admission) that Lucas views each religion as equal and that each one is equally valid in searching for "God." At least that's where he was six years ago.

I love Star Wars and I love all the spiritual issues that it raises. And I like his goal of trying to help people ask that (in my opinion) most important question, "Who is God?"

So, along with Lucas, I will ask you, "Are you looking? Have you found the answer?"

[sol]

Technically, Anakin's search for the solution of the supposed problem led to the problem. No nightmare of Padme, no darkside. Then again, you can't blame Anakin/Vader/Good Vader, he's been through a lot: a slave, a worked out jedi in training, leading a love and fight life, etc.

[devestator]

This thread's gonna get ugly. >.<

Nice find Redemption

[Jw18]

yes excelent find redemptionrocks

[Ataru]

Wow. Very nicely put, redemtionrocks! I never thought of it like that, and the verse is a very good one as well. For those who don't have a Bible handy, here's the verse from BibleGateway.com. Note, it's in the NIV. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%2013&version=31

[Jw18]

wow that just changed my life forever NOT!!!!!!!

[Ataru]

You know, in Ep. II I got incredibly annoyed by Anakin's constant rash promising, especially of his promise that someday he will be so powerful he will be able to stop people from dying. Now that I look at it in a different light, as redemptionrocks has showed us, I see that he did in fact keep that promise, however rash and impossible it may have seemed. In fact, at the time he was powerful enough to stop people from dying. However, he was not able, because he was not in a situation in which his intervention could stop someone's death. Later that situation came. He had a choice to make, and that choice was which of two men to save: Mace Windu or Chancellor Palpatine. In the moment that he rushed at them, he was powerful enough to save a life, but he could only save one and the other must die. He chose the wrong one, and fell to the dark side.

[superflytnt]

First, Anakin always has the power to stop people from dying, just as every one of us does...simply DO NOT KILL. If you choose not to kill, you have the power to stop people from dying, don't you? Anakin is a tempermental, over-emotional douchebag, and that's what his problem has always been. When his mom got iced, it basically sent him into a rage-filled psychosis that he never got over. Then, the 'powers that be' told him that he couldn't hook up with any chickies, which really riled him up as he was paddling Padme the whole time. So, he has a psychotropic Naboo Mushroom trip, sees Padme dying, and sets himself on the course to not letting her die...the funny thing about all of this is that he had the power all along - if his lust for power wasn't in the way (and Qui-Gon and all the Jedi pukes never told him how 'special' he was) he would've quit the Jedi order, hooked up with Padme and raised his kids on some farm in Naboo, using his force powers to milk Nerfs and his lightsaber to scythe down stalks of corn.

[Deleted]

superflytnt said:

First, Anakin always has the power to stop people from dying, just as every one of us does...simply DO NOT KILL. If you choose not to kill, you have the power to stop people from dying, don't you? Anakin is a tempermental, over-emotional douchebag, and that's what his problem has always been. When his mom got iced, it basically sent him into a rage-filled psychosis that he never got over. Then, the 'powers that be' told him that he couldn't hook up with any chickies, which really riled him up as he was paddling Padme the whole time. So, he has a psychotropic Naboo Mushroom trip, sees Padme dying, and sets himself on the course to not letting her die...the funny thing about all of this is that he had the power all along - if his lust for power wasn't in the way (and Qui-Gon and all the Jedi pukes never told him how 'special' he was) he would've quit the Jedi order, hooked up with Padme and raised his kids on some farm in Naboo, using his force powers to milk Nerfs and his lightsaber to scythe down stalks of corn.

Could'a, would'a, should'a...