Whiz Kid
30 Point Captain
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Post by Whiz Kid on Oct 16, 2007 10:16:51 GMT -5
So last night I bought a pack of SW4 just for kicks, and pulled a chrome Vader. Sweet, I'd rather have black-based, but I likes me some Vader regardless. I was telling one of my friends about how revered 1:16 Vader is, and that I wondered how 4:11 compared.
I pulled up the resources that I've picked up here to get the 411 on 4:11, and imagine my surprise to find that it's virtually the same thing! According to the documents I have, the speed, point cost, special frequency, and sculpt are the same, leaving the class, faction, and special slightly different.
Vader 1:16: Warrior, Sith, needs a Trooper to stand. Vader 4:11: Leader, Empire, needs anything to stand.
Maybe it's just me, but offhand, I'm guessing Sith doesn't have a lot of Troopers, so it's not like 1:16 is going to be running around on an all-Sith team. With that being the case, the faction doesn't seem to play a big role, and I would think that given the same frequency of specials, the Trooper limitation would be unwanted as well.
Now, unless I'm wrong about all this (which sadly means the guides are too), why does Vader 1:16 still see so much love? Granted, he's a beast, but Vader 4:11 seems even more so.
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Post by Cona Chris on Oct 16, 2007 10:23:49 GMT -5
Vader 1:16 was the original, and generally the first of something gets a lot of love even when something better comes out. You are correct in that they are identical except for class and faction.
Using Vader 1:16 makes sense of course for a Sith-based team since you generally need other Siths to enable the Siths like Dooku, Sidious (and Royal Guards even though they aren't Sith)to recover.
Vader 4:11 is IMO superior because he is a Leader/Empire... and you have figures that give free moves/attacks to Empire but none for the Sith. There are also a lot of figures that give free moves/attacks to Leaders (Wolverine, Wookiee Commando, AT-ST Driver, and the famous Bail Organa). Plus, as my recent 200-point Champion thread shows, you can use Sabertooths (who need a Leader to recover) for a devastating combo.
The only figure I can think off that gives a Warrior a free attackback that is higher than 8% is the SW% Heavy Stormtrooper.
Vader 4:11 is my pick for the best figure, but 1:16 isn't that much less and is clearly still a force to be reckoned with.
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warlordofmars
30 Point Captain
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Post by warlordofmars on Oct 16, 2007 11:31:26 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a similar experience for anyone else, but many of my S1 and S1 figures (Including S1 Vader) have an incredible spring! Really immense hitting power! Lots of my s3 and s4 figures (including s4 Vader) just don't swing as hard. I don't know how widespread this is and if it contributes to the love for S1 Vader also, but it sure made me love my S1 Vader more (until he broke).
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Post by ionicdesign on Oct 16, 2007 13:01:03 GMT -5
I don't know if this is a similar experience for anyone else, but many of my S1 and S1 figures (Including S1 Vader) have an incredible spring! Really immense hitting power! Lots of my s3 and s4 figures (including s4 Vader) just don't swing as hard. I don't know how widespread this is and if it contributes to the love for S1 Vader also, but it sure made me love my S1 Vader more (until he broke). Ditto. Strategically there are advantages to both the S4 and gold Vader depending on how you team them, but for Herculean strikes it is hard to beat the original.
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Gideon
30 Point Warrior
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Posts: 545
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Post by Gideon on Oct 16, 2007 13:39:53 GMT -5
SW4 Vader is definitely better.
Gideon
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Post by Radar on Oct 16, 2007 14:17:04 GMT -5
Oh yeah, series 4 is vastly better. Why limit yourself to needing troopers? And Empire is currently a much better faction to be a part of than the Sith.
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Pac-Man
30 Point Captain
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Post by Pac-Man on Oct 16, 2007 18:40:15 GMT -5
S4vader is better and it seems like he's white more than S1 vader,but my S1 vader has a great spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by attacktixman123 on Oct 17, 2007 1:23:28 GMT -5
i think the s4 vader is better by a lot. go vader !!!
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Post by ionicdesign on Oct 17, 2007 9:20:39 GMT -5
S4vader is better and it seems like he's white more than S1 vader,but my S1 vader has a great spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could be by experience, but according to Malform's stats on the Wiki attacktix.wikia.com/wiki/Complete_star_wars_guide they are both 62%.
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Post by malform on Oct 17, 2007 10:04:25 GMT -5
S4vader is better and it seems like he's white more than S1 vader,but my S1 vader has a great spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could be by experience, but according to Malform's stats on the Wiki attacktix.wikia.com/wiki/Complete_star_wars_guide they are both 62%. Yes sir, according to TixTool they are both 62%. The stats on joeattacktix back it up as well... Please do post if you find either one of these vaders has something other than 16 white spaces on their discs.
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Post by Cona Chris on Oct 17, 2007 10:11:21 GMT -5
S4vader is better and it seems like he's white more than S1 vader,but my S1 vader has a great spring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could be by experience, but according to Malform's stats on the Wiki attacktix.wikia.com/wiki/Complete_star_wars_guide they are both 62%. As odd as this may sound - even though the wheels of white/black on the bottom are identical - I do think two of the same figure can wind up having one with more whites than others. I think it has to do with the wheel and how it lines up to the window (it's possible that the white part doesn't show up for some figure depending on how to tix and where it is - I can often get a white to appear and then get a black to appear without moving it a tix). As many of you know, I keep stats on all my matches, and have many games for which to draw from. For example, I have 3 Destroyer Droids, and 2 of them seem to come up white a lot more than they should. Those two come up white nearly 50% of the time (38% is the norm) and it's been like this over the course of over 40-50 games involving each figure. The other DD has the other problem and is white far less often than 38%. Guess which one didn't make the cut for my TixCon 200-point team? I also have a clone trooper that has been defeated well over 70 times that has yet to come up white. It was the first clone I ever got. Granted, the chances are only 8% each time he falls, but the odds that it comes up black every time is roughly 1 in 300.
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grizz
30 Point Warrior
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Post by grizz on Oct 23, 2007 21:05:12 GMT -5
I must also add that the spring in both my 16 Vader's is a lot stronger then the one in any of my three 11 Vader's.
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Post by attacktixman123 on Oct 24, 2007 2:12:11 GMT -5
the s4 one tends to swivel once you release
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AWOL
40 Point Warrior
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Posts: 820
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Post by AWOL on Oct 24, 2007 9:43:52 GMT -5
As odd as this may sound - even though the wheels of white/black on the bottom are identical - I do think two of the same figure can wind up having one with more whites than others. I think it has to do with the wheel and how it lines up to the window (it's possible that the white part doesn't show up for some figure depending on how to tix and where it is - I can often get a white to appear and then get a black to appear without moving it a tix). As many of you know, I keep stats on all my matches, and have many games for which to draw from. For example, I have 3 Destroyer Droids, and 2 of them seem to come up white a lot more than they should. Those two come up white nearly 50% of the time (38% is the norm) and it's been like this over the course of over 40-50 games involving each figure. The other DD has the other problem and is white far less often than 38%. Guess which one didn't make the cut for my TixCon 200-point team? I also have a clone trooper that has been defeated well over 70 times that has yet to come up white. It was the first clone I ever got. Granted, the chances are only 8% each time he falls, but the odds that it comes up black every time is roughly 1 in 300. While I appreciate statistics (and I understand that stats are simply a passion for some people), herein lies the problem of taking statistics too seriously when you're dealing with plastic little toys in a real world that will do none other than behave as plastic little toys. All the stats in the world won't determine if this figure or that figure will be white. Did we not learn anything from Star Wars when Luke, flying in the trenches of the Death Star, turns off his target lock mechanism and relies solely on the Force? To all you stats-lovers, I say put the blinder up and feel the Force flowing through you...
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Post by malform on Oct 24, 2007 10:19:42 GMT -5
As odd as this may sound - even though the wheels of white/black on the bottom are identical - I do think two of the same figure can wind up having one with more whites than others. I think it has to do with the wheel and how it lines up to the window (it's possible that the white part doesn't show up for some figure depending on how to tix and where it is - I can often get a white to appear and then get a black to appear without moving it a tix). As many of you know, I keep stats on all my matches, and have many games for which to draw from. For example, I have 3 Destroyer Droids, and 2 of them seem to come up white a lot more than they should. Those two come up white nearly 50% of the time (38% is the norm) and it's been like this over the course of over 40-50 games involving each figure. The other DD has the other problem and is white far less often than 38%. Guess which one didn't make the cut for my TixCon 200-point team? I also have a clone trooper that has been defeated well over 70 times that has yet to come up white. It was the first clone I ever got. Granted, the chances are only 8% each time he falls, but the odds that it comes up black every time is roughly 1 in 300. While I appreciate statistics (and I understand that stats are simply a passion for some people), herein lies the problem of taking statistics too seriously when you're dealing with plastic little toys in a real world that will do none other than behave as plastic little toys. All the stats in the world won't determine if this figure or that figure will be white. Did we not learn anything from Star Wars when Luke, flying in the trenches of the Death Star, turns off his target lock mechanism and relies solely on the Force? To all you stats-lovers, I say put the blinder up and feel the Force flowing through you... "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid" Stats... I mean stats, not blaster... Where did that come from?
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