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Post by Joe Manzo on Jun 11, 2007 0:18:34 GMT -5
Hey guys, I don't have any inside information when it comes to anything related to this, so I'm not trying to infer anything by posting here. However, I do follow "industry news" pretty closely, and here's a sample of what's going on now... Wizards announces patent on CSGWizKids files suit in responseSo it's not beyond the realm of possibility. Here is a key piece of this story (and why WotC will probably win): 2002 - Wizards designs, but never releases, a game called "Punchbots" 2002 - Wizards files a patent application on constructible strategy games based on Punchbots Fall 2003 - WOTC R&D Design Lead Mike Selinker leaves Wizards of the Coast and begins designign a new game for WizKidsMarch 2004 (GTS '04) - WizKids announces it is publishing a revolutionary new Mike Selinker game called "Pirates of the Spanish Main", the first in a "new" category called "constructible strategy games" May 2004 - Wizards of the Coast sends a cease & desist letter to WizKids warning them not to publish POTSM July 2004 - WizKids publishes POTSM. Tough to claim "independent discovery" when you have someone that knows the original game front and back... in fact Selinker could have designed the perfect loophole game that misses every patented facet of the Punchbots game... Also of note: a loophole allows archers to shoot down enemies, while staying safe inside the castle walls. In other words... it's the TINIEST of holes in a giant, solid structure.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 0:23:57 GMT -5
Hmmm, that helps to fill in some pieces of the puzzle.
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Post by Radar on Jun 11, 2007 0:25:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I still think there is a good chance that they may get sued. Attacktix has a patent, if the new game infringes on that....then there should be a lawsuit.
I mean really isn't that the point of a patent? To protect what you are creating? Those pictures that SFX posted are interesting looking figures, but as I understand it Hasbro put out a patent for "Battle Figures" and what ever that all encompasses. So, they aren't going to go out and sue people that make green army men, unless they try to make those green army men into battle figures with attacking mechanics.
That fourth figure that SFX posted look to me like they should have been sued (I'm pretty sure those came out after Attacktix).
I don't know the exact language used in the patent, but it seems to me that the people that made Attacktix would want to protect their product. I think that it is a very real possibility that the DC Battle League is too similar to Battle Figures and will get sued.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2007 0:45:44 GMT -5
That fourth figure that SFX posted look to me like they should have been sued (I'm pretty sure those came out after Attacktix). I believe that figure is from the Marvel game called "Marvel Legends Showdown". I think they came out at about the same time as Attacktix, or shortly there-after.
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Post by greyelephant on Jun 11, 2007 7:04:55 GMT -5
Well, we will see pretty darn soon if this comes to be a legal tie up in courts or a reality.
I am hoping for the second. I really want these to come out. If nothing more this is going to help Attacktix more than hurt. Games like this help spread the word.
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Post by webhead817 on Jun 11, 2007 7:46:49 GMT -5
Gang, nobody is going to get sued here. Attacktix isn't exactly a wholly unique idea. More like a variation on a theme. There have been plenty of similar games before and there will be many more after. While all tabletop mini and action figure games have things in common, certain game mechanics or physical components make each unique... and the uniqueness is the part you try to protect via patent and what not...for example... Shadowrun Duels: Unique components - three tracking dials in base, base = storage compartment for equipment, swappable equipment, special range finder ruler. Unique rules - point system for equipment, range, etc. Common component - action figure Heroclix: Unique components - "clicky base" to track wounds and display powers and stats, Unique rules - knockback, powers and abilities, etc. Common component - pre-painted miniature Star Wars Miniatures: Unique components - matching stat cards, Unique rules - d20 rules system and rpg compatability. Common component - pre-painted miniature Marvel Legends Showdown: Unique components - "posing" base with stats, power cards, Unique rules - battle card grid playing area. Common component - action figure Starship Troopers Miniatures - Unique elements - scaled figures, unique ruleset. Common component - unpainted miniature figure For Attacktix, the unique elements are the bases themselves...the "tix" wheel, speed disk on top, power window on the bottom, and the method whereby it standardizes the defense of the figures. The physical attack method is somewhat unique among traditional minis games. The ruleset, just like any other, is unique of course, particuarly the special powers that activate upon KO. The common component is the action figure itself of course.
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Post by superflytnt on Jun 11, 2007 8:09:31 GMT -5
Yes, but if you peruse the Tix patent (not that it's enforcable against infringement or wouldn't in part or whole be ruled invalid) and actually look at it, it's pretty broad in it's scope and the IP that they are trying to protect. They are actual references in gameplay (vis a vis claims) that could be construed by the court as patented IP. Anyone who in some way, depending on the judge, infringes the spirit of the patent could be found to be infringing it and ordered to C/a/D.
Even if Mattel wins, they will be tied up in court, and a judge may in fact grant a temporary injunction barring Mattel from delivering product to distribution.
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Gideon
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Post by Gideon on Jun 11, 2007 8:48:00 GMT -5
I don't know about you guys, but I'm playing DC Battle League. And I'm not giving up Attacktix. I mean, I have 81 figs! I need more.......
And if you play DC Battle League, save the boosters. According to BBTS, they can be flipped inside out to be a building. Possible Attacktix scenarios........
Gideon
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Post by superflytnt on Jun 11, 2007 8:50:04 GMT -5
Hey Gideon, if you have these, take some photos from top/bottom/left/right and please explain how they work for those of us who are entirely unfamiliar. I'd really get the opinion and explanation from a trusted associate who plays than some news site...
Thanks j-j-j-j-G Unit.
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Gideon
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Post by Gideon on Jun 11, 2007 8:51:36 GMT -5
I will have to look for my Dad's camera for a pic of my figs.
Gideon
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Post by sfx5000 on Jun 11, 2007 21:45:22 GMT -5
While all tabletop mini and action figure games have things in common, certain game mechanics or physical components make each unique... and the uniqueness is the part you try to protect via patent and what not For Attacktix, the unique elements are the bases themselves...the "tix" wheel, speed disk on top, power window on the bottom, and the method whereby it standardizes the defense of the figures. The physical attack method is somewhat unique among traditional minis games. The ruleset, just like any other, is unique of course, particuarly the special powers that activate upon KO. The common component is the action figure itself of course. That's what I was getting at. oohhh.... Mattel's gonna get sued(I still want these, but mattel is still going to get sued). The only unique part of Attacktix that Hasbro has a patent on is the tix wheel and the internal mechanism that turns the black/white color wheel (I believe). So if Mattel's game doesn't have a tixing wheel there is no grounds for a law suit.
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Post by Radar on Jul 19, 2007 13:00:27 GMT -5
So, I just figured out why I'm having trouble finding info about this on the net. It is not called "DC Battle League", but instead it is "DC Battleague". No, I'm not kidding. OK, the concept of having the package convert into a building is neat, but they are going to have all kinds of tampering issues in store and the building are ridiculously undersized. I suppose I'm just generally disappointed that this is not an Attacktix product. I'd love to have tournaments with Batman vs. Obi-Wan vs. Optimus Prime vs. Wolverine.
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Post by YodaBreaker on Jul 19, 2007 15:05:23 GMT -5
OK, the concept of having the package convert into a building is neat, but they are going to have all kinds of tampering issues in store and the building are ridiculously undersized. I wouldn't really care about them being undersized. I think that this is one place where Attacktix has fallen down, and I was really thinking about how one could convert a package into terrain when I was ripping open a SM3 set. It'd be soooo easy to do, but it doesn't seem to be of interest to Hasbro right now. I could have easily imagined how that box could have been converted into terrain with appropriate packaging and perforation. Heck, it probably still could have been a wall or something, if I had been swift enough to think of cutting out that middle wall of brick-like cardboard deco.
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Post by Radar on Jul 19, 2007 15:21:06 GMT -5
...I must disagree. It looks goofy. They (we too) could have easily had the packaging look like a mailbox, tank, car, brick wall, plant life, whatever.
A figure should not be able to shoot straight forward, shoot over the top of a building, and hit another figure. If it was meant to be a short obstacle, it shouldn't be painted to look like something that is tall
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Post by greyelephant on Jul 19, 2007 15:33:26 GMT -5
I have to agree that the buildings do look goofy. With that said, the figures look great! I am going to have a real hard time not buying these. That is if we ever see them.
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