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Post by TheBig HairyTruth IsOutThere on May 15, 2008 15:05:36 GMT -5
Here is my feeling: Everytime I use Mystique I get my butt whipped. I never use her, so she must not be THAT powerful.
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Post by superflytnt on May 15, 2008 15:09:30 GMT -5
Here's a fun Gumby moment - bend a GBG to clip a Jawa and have him roll at enemies.
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Post by TheBig HairyTruth IsOutThere on May 18, 2008 17:30:33 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]And one more note: GreyElephant wants to review the ruling on "Stun". I am guessing that he is putting together a team with the Stun special prevalent in the makeup of the team, so he wants to review it and have it mean "Figures Cannot Move Or Shoot". [/glow] I think with other specials the bottom of the figure is read very literally as instructions for the special. In this case it reads "your opponent may not move any...... So therefore we ignore the meaning of the term "stun" and just go with the directions. Did I see something about a destroyer droid only getting one shot if it is defeated and rescued in the middle of it's attacks? IMO that is not at all compatible with the new ruling that a figure may use their special after being rallied. If one ignores the fact that you should be smarter with your first shot, of course. Maybe the only figs that are available to shoot at all have an attack-back special.
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Post by superflytnt on May 18, 2008 17:37:23 GMT -5
Ok CN, let me see if I get what you're saying:
1. You are saying that you DON'T or DO like the idea of Stun? I, personally, think that it's pretty dumb to allow a stunned fig to shoot, but it's written pretty clearly on the bottom so I can't really justify us REMOVING words from the bottom SP. Adding, I'm usually OK with provided that there is a really compelling reason. IMO, they should've stated MOVE OR SHOOT, but what the heck.
2. Destroyer only gets one shot if he's killed and rallied. Make sure GE explains (in small words, you know how he is) that the debate was not on the Special Power, but Effects. This has to do only with the Action Effect plates on some figs like DareDevil. On your second point, regarding if the only figs left are 'attackback' figs - well in this situation it sucks for you to be the destroyer! The best you can do is to put a Tusken Raider behind him (makes the DD HARD AS HECK to kill) and hope for the best. I don't really see what you're saying with incompatibility - these are two different subjects entirely - one is if a figure with 2 attacks can 'get back up' and shoot his second shot, the other regards whether you need to have a fig in play at the beginning of a turn, and alive the whole way through a turn, to use an Effect.
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Post by TheBig HairyTruth IsOutThere on May 18, 2008 18:08:24 GMT -5
Ok CN, let me see if I get what you're saying: OH raspberries!!!! 1. You are saying that you DON'T or DO like the idea of Stun? I, personally, think that it's pretty dumb to allow a stunned fig to shoot, but it's written pretty clearly on the bottom so I can't really justify us REMOVING words from the bottom SP. Adding, I'm usually OK with provided that there is a really compelling reason. IMO, they should've stated MOVE OR SHOOT, but what the heck.. I agree with the above. 2. Destroyer only gets one shot if he's killed and rallied. Make sure GE explains (in small words, you know how he is) that the debate was not on the Special Power, but Effects. This has to do only with the Action Effect plates on some figs like DareDevil. On your second point, regarding if the only figs left are 'attackback' figs - well in this situation it sucks for you to be the destroyer! The best you can do is to put a Tusken Raider behind him (makes the DD HARD AS HECK to kill) and hope for the best. I don't really see what you're saying with incompatibility - these are two different subjects entirely - one is if a figure with 2 attacks can 'get back up' and shoot his second shot, the other regards whether you need to have a fig in play at the beginning of a turn, and alive the whole way through a turn, to use an Effect. I knew it was effect. I simply used the wrong word while typing. It happens. I have a teether waking me up every hour and a half. I will discuss the effect problem, but I have already brought it up, and I may PM you about the other comment!! BTW, are you saying that he uses words that are too big for you to understand? I am sorry you feel that way.
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Post by superflytnt on May 18, 2008 19:46:07 GMT -5
No I mean when talking to him make sure HE uses small words, because you know he likes to toss around 20$ words without knowing the meaning. You are, without a doubt, the better of the 2. ;D
Now what I still don't understand is the 'beef' with the correlation of the 2 rules. I am not sure what you mean...maybe you need to use small words with me too!
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Post by greyelephant on May 18, 2008 20:07:55 GMT -5
Posted by superflytnt on Today at 8:46pm No I mean when talking to him make sure HE uses small words, because you know he likes to toss around 20$ words without knowing the meaning. You are, without a doubt, the better of the 2. |
You're about as funny as a screen door on a battle ship.
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Post by grievous on May 18, 2008 21:42:11 GMT -5
But that's not funny at a--- Oh... I get it now.
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Post by superflytnt on May 27, 2008 11:45:34 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]And one more note: GreyElephant wants to review the ruling on "Stun". I am guessing that he is putting together a team with the Stun special prevalent in the makeup of the team, so he wants to review it and have it mean "Figures Cannot Move Or Shoot". [/glow] I think with other specials the bottom of the figure is read very literally as instructions for the special. In this case it reads "your opponent may not move any...... So therefore we ignore the meaning of the term "stun" and just go with the directions. Did I see something about a destroyer droid only getting one shot if it is defeated and rescued in the middle of it's attacks? IMO that is not at all compatible with the new ruling that a figure may use their special after being rallied. If one ignores the fact that you should be smarter with your first shot, of course. Maybe the only figs that are available to shoot at all have an attack-back special. TBHT: I still am uncertain on what you meant here. If you are trying to say that "Stun" is the operative word and we should use it instead of "Figure May Not Move..." then let's look at Stun from the Dictionary: "to make senseless, groggy, or dizzy by or as if by a blow" None of these even denote the inability to move or even shoot. In fact, I think that based upon only the word, the opponent should be able to move your figure 2 tix in any direction to emulate dizzyness. That being said, I just really don't get where you and GE are going with this. I'm not trying to be a smart-azz or anything at all (for once), but I am really trying to get my arms around what you are trying to illustrate here. To me, it's really cut and dry: Stun means that you are unable to move. Jam means you are unable to shoot. Paralyze means that you are unable to move or shoot. simple as that.
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Post by greyelephant on May 27, 2008 14:19:40 GMT -5
Posted by superflytnt on Today at 12:45pm TBHT: I still am uncertain on what you meant here. If you are trying to say that "Stun" is the operative word and we should use it instead of "Figure May Not Move..." then let's look at Stun from the Dictionary: "to make senseless, groggy, or dizzy by or as if by a blow" None of these even denote the inability to move or even shoot. In fact, I think that based upon only the word, the opponent should be able to move your figure 2 tix in any direction to emulate dizzyness.
That being said, I just really don't get where you and GE are going with this. I'm not trying to be a smart-azz or anything at all (for once), but I am really trying to get my arms around what you are trying to illustrate here. To me, it's really cut and dry: Stun means that you are unable to move. Jam means you are unable to shoot. Paralyze means that you are unable to move or shoot. simple as that. |
Stun - To make senseless or dizzy by or as if by a blow. Related words: Bewilder, Stupefy Stupefy - To make stupid, groggy, or insensibleBewilder - Perplex, confuse. So there you go. I agree with what you are saying, "stun" really isn't really a great term to use. However let's once again look at what the bottom of the Rebel Guard does say. "Your opponent may not MOVE any of their rebels on their next turn". So we all agree that "stun" isn't real accurate of a term. So instead of focusing on stun, let's focus on MOVE. Move - 1. To change or cause to change position or posture. 2. To go or cause to go from one point to another 3. to take or cause to take action.Now if I'm correct here, if we are saying that you can aim and shot, we are not only ignoring the true definition of "stun" but we are also ignoring the true definition of "move" as well. "I'm groggy, dizzy, perplexed, and confused, however, I can aim perfectly well enough to shoot over my opponents figures?" "I'm stunned and unable to move, however, I can once again move my torso so that I can accurately aim and shoot over my opponents figures?" Think about Star Trek and how they put their phasers on stun. Now what good would that have done if their enemies were still able to move their torsos around and be able to shoot back? Doesn't make much sense at all. Forget about "Jam", that is a totally different special all together. I understand the harmony, but it's still not 100% accurate itself. There was lot's of debate on how it was supposed to work as well. I pause to consider your responses.
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Post by superflytnt on May 27, 2008 14:31:27 GMT -5
See, that wasn't that hard. Now I see where you're coming from. SMALL WORDS are key ;D
#1. There's no such thing as a Rebel Guard. There is, however, a Royal Guard, of which Series 4 has the 'stun' special power. LOL
#2. Wrong universe. In Star Trek, the phasers stunned and incapacitated the opponent. Had you been up on your Star WARS lore, you'd remember that there was indeed a 'stun' setting on blasters too - they Stunned Leia and it incapacitated her as well.
#3. I see what you mean with the semantic wordplay, but at the end of the day had the intent been to be the true antithesis of 'Evade' where you could not do anything WITH the figure that was stunned, then it would be stated that the figure 'May Not Move Nor Attack'. Even when looking at the 'Move' Definition you illustrated that the first 2 definitions could easily be understood to mean NOT MOVING. When taken in context with Stun, it clearly illustrates the abscence of movement, but not nessecarily attacking.
Like I said, I agree with you that I'd WISH the rule to be 'Stun=Paralyzed' but I simply cannot in any way find intent, precedent, or justification for it. I also think that it would make certain figures far more powerful than they would otherwise be if that was the case. So, I still stick with Stun=No Tixing. If you remember, I added the 'cannot move or twist but can shoot in direction he's facing' option because that made the most sense to me - a stunned guy certainly can pull a trigger blindly.
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Post by greyelephant on May 27, 2008 14:52:44 GMT -5
Posted by superflytnt on Today at 3:31pm See, that wasn't that hard. Now I see where you're coming from. SMALL WORDS are key
#1. There's no such thing as a Rebel Guard. There is, however, a Royal Guard, of which Series 4 has the 'stun' special power. LOL
#2. Wrong universe. In Star Trek, the phasers stunned and incapacitated the opponent. Had you been up on your Star WARS lore, you'd remember that there was indeed a 'stun' setting on blasters too - they Stunned Leia and it incapacitated her as well.
#3. I see what you mean with the semantic wordplay, but at the end of the day had the intent been to be the true antithesis of 'Evade' where you could not do anything WITH the figure that was stunned, then it would be stated that the figure 'May Not Move Nor Attack'. Even when looking at the 'Move' Definition you illustrated that the first 2 definitions could easily be understood to mean NOT MOVING. When taken in context with Stun, it clearly illustrates the abscence of movement, but not nessecarily attacking.
Like I said, I agree with you that I'd WISH the rule to be 'Stun=Paralyzed' but I simply cannot in any way find intent, precedent, or justification for it. I also think that it would make certain figures far more powerful than they would otherwise be if that was the case. So, I still stick with Stun=No Tixing. If you remember, I added the 'cannot move or twist but can shoot in direction he's facing' option because that made the most sense to me - a stunned guy certainly can pull a trigger blindly. |
1. ooops! LOL! 2. And she fell to the ground unable to move. Watch the movie like I just did and you will see her fall to the ground unable to move. She wasn't squirming moving only her torso aiming at stormtroopers and shooting. Later after the effects of the stun wore off she is brought before Vader where she is fully capable of walking and speaking. 3. What? I understand what you are saying, however it clearly states NOT MOVE. Wouldn't pulling a trigger be moving? I understand what you are saying about "evade", but I'm not sure that it's even necessary to bring up when speaking about this special (stun) that is defined clearly in it's print. *Sigh........bang head against wall*
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Post by superflytnt on May 27, 2008 14:57:09 GMT -5
Movement can be construed in different ways....here's an example.
When looking at the much-hated QSG, there's this little thiing about moving, THEN attacking. If after the movement phase you can no longer move any figures, then how do you attack? How could you swing?
You see, my dear friend, that this is not so cut and dry as you'd have us believe. ;D I still think you're scheming to use a Stun figure in the tournament, but we shall see.
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Post by greyelephant on May 27, 2008 15:57:11 GMT -5
No, this has nothing to do with Tix Con. None of the ''stun'' figures are really worth the embarrassment I would sustain from using them.
Good point on movement Attacktix wise.
However, I once again will state the two main facts that I have thus found to provide ample evidence that Stun does in fact mean that a figure shouldn't be able to move or attack.
1. You related this to thematic reasons being Leia was stunned. However when she was stunned she couldn't move to either shoot, strike, or use foul language.
2. Stun isn't a real good term to use if you look closely at it's definition. However if you look at the wording it says that "your opponent may not MOVE any of their blank". Move is defined clearly in 4 posts above. Now compare this to #1.
Why am I even arguing, it's not like it's going to change anything, right? LOL!
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Post by superflytnt on May 27, 2008 16:09:24 GMT -5
You and I may not be the only ones reading this and a wave of "yeah, that needs to be revisited" may come my way.
We'll agree to disagree, I suppose, and part as good friends.
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